Thread: Shooting At A Connecticut Elementary School. 26 Dead Including 18 Children

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  1. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    And private locations still have the final say on the matter. If a business owner doesn't want concealed firearms on his property, doesn't matter which version of the CPL you have.
    That's not true in anywhere that I know of. A business owner can put up whatever signs he wishes (he can buy a sign at Lowes), but police officers will only enforce city or state, etc. laws.

    It would be a pretty strange police officer who responded to, "That man is carrying a gun, and I don't want him to!"

    Here's a concealed carry reciprocity map. Legal is legal.
    http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html
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  2. #52  
    Senior Member Madisonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    That's not true in anywhere that I know of. A business owner can put up whatever signs he wishes (he can buy a sign at Lowes), but police officers will only enforce city or state, etc. laws.

    It would be a pretty strange police officer who responded to, "That man is carrying a gun, and I don't want him to!"

    Here's a concealed carry reciprocity map. Legal is legal.
    http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html
    Maybe in Florida, but not Michigan.
    If the property owner (business or personal) has a no guns policy and you are carrying (concealed or not) and the owner knows it, you can be asked to leave. If you do not leave, you can be charged with criminal trespass.
    Texas has a similar policy as it applies to businesses, but specific signage is required.

    Good place for info...
    http://www.handgunlaw.us
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  3. #53  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    I just rechecked the law, and yes private property can still restrict CCW, and they made it so State Universities could as well. Everywhere else though, doesn't matter how many "Gun Free Zones" signs you post. The extended CPL will give you freedom to be armed. As far as I'm aware Snyder is still sitting on the bill. They passed it the same day the shooting happened, so I'm sure he doesn't want to create another firestorm so soon after the RTW issue.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  4. #54  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    I don't recall these mass shootings in the 70's and 80's growing up. I lived close to Bronx State Psychiatric Center. They institutionalized the criminally insane. Now, they go to jail, do some easy time and are let back out due to over-crowding. This country has turned it's back on the mentally ill. This is why we are seeing a rise in these types of events. Even Bellevue in NYC has turned in a regular medical center with the exception of a few wards. The mentally ill who are lucky enough to be diagnosed are being treated with drugs with no way to monitor compliance. Do we re-open shuttered mental institutions? I don't know if that is the answer...but what else is there?
    YEAR NAME AGE KILLED HURT
    1 '49 Howard B. Unruh 28 13 3
    2 '66 Charles J. Whitman 25 16 31
    3 '66 Robert B. Smith 18 5 2
    4 '67 Leo Held 40 6 6
    5 '72 Edwin J. Grace 33 6 6
    6 '74 Anthony Barbaro 17 3 9
    7 '76 Robert D. Patty 43 3 2
    8 '76 Charles E. Allaway 37 7 2
    9 '77 Frederick W. Cowan 33 6 4
    10 '79 Brenda Spencer 16 2 9
    11 '80 Alvin Lee King III 46 5 10
    12 '80 Victor Belmonte 23 4 1
    13 '82 Carl Brown 51 8 3
    14 '84 Tyrone Mitchell 28 1 12
    15 '84 Jomes O. Huberty 41 21 19
    16 '85 Sylvia Seegrist 25 3 7
    17 '86 Patrick H. Sherrill 44 14 6
    18 '87 William Cruse 59 6 12
    19 '87 Robert L. Beebe 55 3 2
    20 '88 Richard W. Farley 39 7 5
    21 '88 Laurie Dann 30 1 6
    22 '88 Jomes W. Wilson 19 2 9
    23 '88 Nicholas Elliott 15 1 1
    24 '89 Patrick E. Purdy 24 5 31
    25 '89 Emmanuel Tsegaye 33 3 1
    26 '89 Joseph Besaraba Jr. 44 2 1
    27 '89 Joseph T. Wesbecker 47 8 12
    28 '90 James C. Brady 31 1 4
    29 '90 James E. Pough 42 10 4
    30 '91 Joseph M. Harris 35 4 0
    31 '91 George Hennard 35 23 23
    32 '91 Gang Lu 28 5 1
    33 '91 Thomas McIlvane 31 4 4
    34 '92 Pete C. Rogovich 27 4 0
    35 '92 Eric Houston 20 4 10
    36 '92 George Lott 45 2 3
    37 '92 John T. Miller 50 4 0
    38 '92 Wayne Lo 18 2 4
    39 '93 Paul Calden 33 3 2
    40 '93 Mark R. Hilbun 45 1 2
    41 '93 Larry Jasion 45 3 0
    42 '93 Gian L. Ferri 55 8 6
    43 '93 Dion Terres 25 2 1
    44 '93 Sergio Nelson 19 2 0
    45 '93 Alan Winterbourne 33 4 4
    46 '93 Colin Ferguson 35 6 9
    47 '94 Tuan Nguyen 29 3 2
    48 '94 Ladislav Antalik 38 2 2
    49 '94 John C. Salvi 22 2 5
    50 '95 Wendell Williamson 26 2 2
    51 '95 Christopher Green 29 4 1
    52 '95 James Simpson 28 5 0
    53 '95 James F. Davis 41 3 4
    54 '95 Willie Woods 42 4 0
    55 '95 William J. Kreutzer Jr. 26 1 18
    56 '95 Jaime Rouse 17 2 1
    57 '95 Gerald Clemons 53 3 0
    58 '95 Michael Vernon 22 5 3
    59 '96 Mark Bechard 37 2 2
    60 '96 Barry Loukaitis 14 3 1
    61 '96 Clifton McCree 41 5 1
    62 '96 Kenneth Tornes 42 5 2
    63 '96 Dan Copeman 40 2 2
    64 '96 Frederick M. Davidson 36 3 0
    65 '96 David M. Hill 36 3 0
    66 '96 Jillian Robbins 19 1 1
    67 '96 Gerald M. Atkins 29 1 3
    68 '95 Jody T. Gordon 24 1 2
    69 '97 Evan Ramsey 16 2 2
    70 '97 Ali Hassan Abu Kamal 69 1 6
    71 '97 Allen Griffin Jr. 21 3 2
    72 '97 Jeffrey Wallace 36 1 3
    73 '97 Daniel S. Marsden 38 2 4
    74 '97 Drue Cade 69 1 2
    75 '97 Katsuyuki Nishi 53 2 3
    76 '97 Carl Drega 67 4 4
    77 '97 Arthur H. Wise 43 4 3
    78 '97 Luke T. Woodham 16 3 7
    79 '97 Michael Carneal 14 3 5
    80 '97 Arturo Reyes Torres 41 4 2
    81 '98 Matthew Beck 35 4 0
    82 '98 Mitchell Johnson 13 5 10
    Andrew Goldstein 11 5 10
    83 '98 David Rothman 51 2 0
    84 '98 Andrew Wurst 14 1 3
    85 '98 Kipland Kinkel 15 4 22
    86 '98 Gracie Verduzco 35 1 4
    87 '98 Russell Weston Jr. 41 2 1
    88 '99 Lisa Duy 24 1 1
    89 '99 Shon Miller 22 4 4
    90 '99 Sergei S. Babarin 70 2 5
    91 '99 Eric Harris, 18 13 23
    Dylan Klebold 17 13 23
    92 '99 Zane Floyd 23 4 1
    93 '99 Joseph Brooks Jr. 28 2 4
    94 '99 Benjamin N. Smith 21 2 9
    95 '99 Mark Barton 44 12 13
    96 '99 Alan E. Miller 34 3 0
    97 '99 Buford O. Furrow Jr. 37 1 5
    98 '99 Dung Trinh 43 3 0
    99 '99 Larry G. Ashbrook 47 7 7
    100 '99 Byran K. Uyesugi 40 7 0

    Source of list

    Interesting article on Rampage Killers

    Killing Events by Year
    Events Year
    1 49
    2 66
    1 67
    1 72
    1 74
    2 76
    1 77
    1 79
    2 80
    1 82
    2 84
    1 85
    1 86
    2 87
    4 89
    2 90
    4 91
    5 92
    8 93
    3 94
    10 95
    10 96
    12 97
    7 98
    13 99

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
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  5. #55  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    YEAR NAME AGE KILLED HURT
    1 '49 Howard B. Unruh 28 13 3
    2 '66 Charles J. Whitman 25 16 31
    3 '66 Robert B. Smith 18 5 2
    4 '67 Leo Held 40 6 6
    5 '72 Edwin J. Grace 33 6 6
    6 '74 Anthony Barbaro 17 3 9
    7 '76 Robert D. Patty 43 3 2
    8 '76 Charles E. Allaway 37 7 2
    9 '77 Frederick W. Cowan 33 6 4
    10 '79 Brenda Spencer 16 2 9
    11 '80 Alvin Lee King III 46 5 10
    12 '80 Victor Belmonte 23 4 1
    13 '82 Carl Brown 51 8 3
    14 '84 Tyrone Mitchell 28 1 12
    15 '84 Jomes O. Huberty 41 21 19
    16 '85 Sylvia Seegrist 25 3 7
    17 '86 Patrick H. Sherrill 44 14 6
    18 '87 William Cruse 59 6 12
    19 '87 Robert L. Beebe 55 3 2
    20 '88 Richard W. Farley 39 7 5
    21 '88 Laurie Dann 30 1 6
    22 '88 Jomes W. Wilson 19 2 9
    23 '88 Nicholas Elliott 15 1 1
    24 '89 Patrick E. Purdy 24 5 31
    25 '89 Emmanuel Tsegaye 33 3 1
    26 '89 Joseph Besaraba Jr. 44 2 1
    27 '89 Joseph T. Wesbecker 47 8 12
    28 '90 James C. Brady 31 1 4
    29 '90 James E. Pough 42 10 4
    30 '91 Joseph M. Harris 35 4 0
    31 '91 George Hennard 35 23 23
    32 '91 Gang Lu 28 5 1
    33 '91 Thomas McIlvane 31 4 4
    34 '92 Pete C. Rogovich 27 4 0
    35 '92 Eric Houston 20 4 10
    36 '92 George Lott 45 2 3
    37 '92 John T. Miller 50 4 0
    38 '92 Wayne Lo 18 2 4
    39 '93 Paul Calden 33 3 2
    40 '93 Mark R. Hilbun 45 1 2
    41 '93 Larry Jasion 45 3 0
    42 '93 Gian L. Ferri 55 8 6
    43 '93 Dion Terres 25 2 1
    44 '93 Sergio Nelson 19 2 0
    45 '93 Alan Winterbourne 33 4 4
    46 '93 Colin Ferguson 35 6 9
    47 '94 Tuan Nguyen 29 3 2
    48 '94 Ladislav Antalik 38 2 2
    49 '94 John C. Salvi 22 2 5
    50 '95 Wendell Williamson 26 2 2
    51 '95 Christopher Green 29 4 1
    52 '95 James Simpson 28 5 0
    53 '95 James F. Davis 41 3 4
    54 '95 Willie Woods 42 4 0
    55 '95 William J. Kreutzer Jr. 26 1 18
    56 '95 Jaime Rouse 17 2 1
    57 '95 Gerald Clemons 53 3 0
    58 '95 Michael Vernon 22 5 3
    59 '96 Mark Bechard 37 2 2
    60 '96 Barry Loukaitis 14 3 1
    61 '96 Clifton McCree 41 5 1
    62 '96 Kenneth Tornes 42 5 2
    63 '96 Dan Copeman 40 2 2
    64 '96 Frederick M. Davidson 36 3 0
    65 '96 David M. Hill 36 3 0
    66 '96 Jillian Robbins 19 1 1
    67 '96 Gerald M. Atkins 29 1 3
    68 '95 Jody T. Gordon 24 1 2
    69 '97 Evan Ramsey 16 2 2
    70 '97 Ali Hassan Abu Kamal 69 1 6
    71 '97 Allen Griffin Jr. 21 3 2
    72 '97 Jeffrey Wallace 36 1 3
    73 '97 Daniel S. Marsden 38 2 4
    74 '97 Drue Cade 69 1 2
    75 '97 Katsuyuki Nishi 53 2 3
    76 '97 Carl Drega 67 4 4
    77 '97 Arthur H. Wise 43 4 3
    78 '97 Luke T. Woodham 16 3 7
    79 '97 Michael Carneal 14 3 5
    80 '97 Arturo Reyes Torres 41 4 2
    81 '98 Matthew Beck 35 4 0
    82 '98 Mitchell Johnson 13 5 10
    Andrew Goldstein 11 5 10
    83 '98 David Rothman 51 2 0
    84 '98 Andrew Wurst 14 1 3
    85 '98 Kipland Kinkel 15 4 22
    86 '98 Gracie Verduzco 35 1 4
    87 '98 Russell Weston Jr. 41 2 1
    88 '99 Lisa Duy 24 1 1
    89 '99 Shon Miller 22 4 4
    90 '99 Sergei S. Babarin 70 2 5
    91 '99 Eric Harris, 18 13 23
    Dylan Klebold 17 13 23
    92 '99 Zane Floyd 23 4 1
    93 '99 Joseph Brooks Jr. 28 2 4
    94 '99 Benjamin N. Smith 21 2 9
    95 '99 Mark Barton 44 12 13
    96 '99 Alan E. Miller 34 3 0
    97 '99 Buford O. Furrow Jr. 37 1 5
    98 '99 Dung Trinh 43 3 0
    99 '99 Larry G. Ashbrook 47 7 7
    100 '99 Byran K. Uyesugi 40 7 0

    Source of list

    Interesting article on Rampage Killers

    Killing Events by Year
    Events Year
    1 49
    2 66
    1 67
    1 72
    1 74
    2 76
    1 77
    1 79
    2 80
    1 82
    2 84
    1 85
    1 86
    2 87
    4 89
    2 90
    4 91
    5 92
    8 93
    3 94
    10 95
    10 96
    12 97
    7 98
    13 99

    You forgot the shootings in the South Bronx and Harlem.
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  6. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madisonian View Post
    Maybe in Florida, but not Michigan.
    If the property owner (business or personal) has a no guns policy and you are carrying (concealed or not) and the owner knows it, you can be asked to leave. If you do not leave, you can be charged with criminal trespass.
    Texas has a similar policy as it applies to businesses, but specific signage is required.

    Good place for info...
    http://www.handgunlaw.us
    I am quite sure of the law in MS; it is spelled out. No one can prevent you from carrying except state law. You may even carry into the courthouse, but not the courtroom.

    I went to the website you referred to and found that MI is an open carry state. Seems a little strange that some business owner could override state law. But all he can do is ask you to leave. OK.

    I lived in Texas for some years and the fast track to serious trouble there is to carry a firearm into a bar. But that is state law.

    I did find states on both side of the argument:
    WI says business owners should post a sign;
    WA says signs makes no difference - legal is legal

    I guess that since the penalty is being asked to leave (in most cases) I would just walk in and do whatever business I wanted. No one is going to see the gun anyway.
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  7. #57  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madisonian View Post
    Why shouldn't a school teacher have a semi-automatic weapon (as opposed to the misnamed Assault Weapon) any more than you or I or any other member of this board?
    I have 2 Ruger Mini-14's which fire the same size and quantity of rounds as the scary looking Bushmaster and a Yugo 59/66 really scary looking semi-auto with a attached bayonet and (gasp) grenade launcher. The Yugo only has a 10 round capacity, less than my S&W 6906 9mm.
    If you have a teacher who has a CC permit, then allow them to carry, but don't make it a policy to try to arm teachers as a group. Given what we have seen in terms of the political and ideological leanings of most teachers, they'd be the last people that you'd want to arm. You might as well try to put the entire membership of DU through boot camp. The first time that a teacher misuses or misplaces a weapon, there'd be all manner of outcry against the policy, especially if the weapon got into the hands of a student. Unfortunately, in a time when most teachers are barely competent in the subjects that they teach, it's too much to ask that we add a demanding skill to their requirements.

    The problem with these incidents is that the school is a target-rich environment for a shooter, who knows that the vast majority of people within it will be helpless in the face of an armed intruder. What's not widely known is that most military installations are the same way, which is why Nidal Hasan was able to kill so many trained, but unarmed, Soldiers in the space of a few minutes. Any time that you have a large concentration of people who are known to be disarmed, you have a tempting target. There is a reason that these shooters don't go to shoot up the police station, the NRA headquarters, gun shops or the local courthouse, which is that the odds of encountering an armed victim are too great. If we are going to have gun-free schools, then we have to surround them with with barriers to attack. That means doors that cannot be forced, windows that cannot be shot out and armed responders on the premises (although not the teachers, at least not as a group).
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  8. #58  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    Ditto
    May the FORCE be with you!
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