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  1. #1 FBI: More People Killed with Hammers, Clubs Each Year Than Rifles 
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    I propose a ban on hammers and clubs (no more nights out clubbing ladies)

    Think about it: In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 618.
    And so the list goes, with the actual numbers changing somewhat from year to year, yet the fact that more people are killed with blunt objects each year remains constant.
    For example, in 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.
    While the FBI makes is clear that some of the "murder by rifle" numbers could be adjusted up slightly, when you take into account murders with non-categorized types of guns, it does not change the fact that their annual reports consistently show more lives are taken each year with these blunt objects than are taken with Feinstein's dreaded rifle.
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  2. #2  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    I propose a ban on hammers...


    Does that include the ban hammer?
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  3. #3  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Somebody call for evil judge pig?
    How is obama working out for you?
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  4. #4  
    Resident Grandpa marv's Avatar
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    The year the first "assault weapon" ban was enacted, more people in Chicago were murdered with baseball bats than the listed assault weapons. Baseball bats must be banned!

    Go figger!

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  5. #5  
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    Any statistics on people getting murdered by the blunt force of a rifle butt? Ha...that something worth documenting...
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  6. #6  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv View Post
    The year the first "assault weapon" ban was enacted, more people in Chicago were murdered with baseball bats than the listed assault weapons. Baseball bats must be banned!

    Go figger!
    Yes, but it was Chicago. Those murder victims are still voting. It was probably just an ACORN registration drive that got out of hand.
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    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    I am not debating gun control with this argument, just providing some insight after arguing about gun control with my sister over the holidays.


    My sister supports a total ban on any assault rifle, not that she nor I have a clear understanding of what defines that type of rifle. She generally means something that can rapid-fire and take out lots of targets in seconds. Her argument is that a person can take out a lot of people quickly, before any of the people around, even if well-armed, can respond. It's more difficult to kill that many people at once with a baseball bat, knife or other type of weapon.


    My sister takes her argument to the extreme that she doesn't even support the right of people who own gun ranges keeping semi-automatics for use there only. Her argument is that firing guns at ranges is just mentally simulating killing people, therefore it is not something that should be allowed. I told her that her argument borders on violating more than just the second amendment, but possibly even the first-I told her that you can't control what people think or dream about. She got really mad, and since she's been sick, I let it go.
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  8. #8  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I am not debating gun control with this argument, just providing some insight after arguing about gun control with my sister over the holidays.


    My sister supports a total ban on any assault rifle, not that she nor I have a clear understanding of what defines that type of rifle. She generally means something that can rapid-fire and take out lots of targets in seconds. Her argument is that a person can take out a lot of people quickly, before any of the people around, even if well-armed, can respond. It's more difficult to kill that many people at once with a baseball bat, knife or other type of weapon.


    My sister takes her argument to the extreme that she doesn't even support the right of people who own gun ranges keeping semi-automatics for use there only. Her argument is that firing guns at ranges is just mentally simulating killing people, therefore it is not something that should be allowed. I told her that her argument borders on violating more than just the second amendment, but possibly even the first-I told her that you can't control what people think or dream about. She got really mad, and since she's been sick, I let it go.
    So, basically, you are the voice of reason in your family?

    An assault weapon is a weapon that is capable of selective fire, which means that it can fire in single shot mode (semi-automatic, where one trigger squeeze equals one shot) or a burst/multi-shot mode (full-auto, where the weapon fires automatically as long as the trigger is depressed). Fully automatic weapons are already banned, so what your sister really wants to ban is any repeating weapon, i.e., any weapon that can hold more than one round and which can be fired without having to manually engage the action. There are currently over 80 million households in the United States with gun owners (officially, but I believe the real number to be substantially higher). An outright ban would transform roughly half the country into criminals, and a signficant percentage would not only resist confiscation through subterfuge (hiding weapons, fake sales, etc.,), but would actually fight back with those guns if someone showed up to take them. Even if nobody fired a shot, just the sheer volume of searches and warrants would become a civil liberties nightmare. If it turned violent, it would be on a scale not seen here since the Civil War (in fact, it pretty much would be a civil war). Most of the police and military would oppose the ban and if it came to open defiance, would side with the gun owners, which would severely impede confiscation attempts, and turn large swathes of the country into no-go zones for law enforcement. Think of the Prohibition era, when police fought bootleggers and home-brewers in every town in America, and you get a vague idea of the type of issues involved, but the scale would be an order of magnitude greater.

    In order to carry out your sister's attack on the Second Amendment, we'd have to void the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments, not to mention eliminating all manner of other legal protections. For someone who probably considers the Patriot Act unacceptably invasive, she's sure advocating a lot of civil liberties violations.
    --Odysseus
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  9. #9  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    So, basically, you are the voice of reason in your family?

    An assault weapon is a weapon that is capable of selective fire, which means that it can fire in single shot mode (semi-automatic, where one trigger squeeze equals one shot) or a burst/multi-shot mode (full-auto, where the weapon fires automatically as long as the trigger is depressed). Fully automatic weapons are already banned, so what your sister really wants to ban is any repeating weapon, i.e., any weapon that can hold more than one round and which can be fired without having to manually engage the action. There are currently over 80 million households in the United States with gun owners (officially, but I believe the real number to be substantially higher). An outright ban would transform roughly half the country into criminals, and a signficant percentage would not only resist confiscation through subterfuge (hiding weapons, fake sales, etc.,), but would actually fight back with those guns if someone showed up to take them. Even if nobody fired a shot, just the sheer volume of searches and warrants would become a civil liberties nightmare. If it turned violent, it would be on a scale not seen here since the Civil War (in fact, it pretty much would be a civil war). Most of the police and military would oppose the ban and if it came to open defiance, would side with the gun owners, which would severely impede confiscation attempts, and turn large swathes of the country into no-go zones for law enforcement. Think of the Prohibition era, when police fought bootleggers and home-brewers in every town in America, and you get a vague idea of the type of issues involved, but the scale would be an order of magnitude greater.

    In order to carry out your sister's attack on the Second Amendment, we'd have to void the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments, not to mention eliminating all manner of other legal protections. For someone who probably considers the Patriot Act unacceptably invasive, she's sure advocating a lot of civil liberties violations.
    I own an AR-15 that is semi auto but is one shoot per trigger pull. It seems to be considered an assault weapon even though it doesn't have multiple fire capabilities without significant modification.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
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  10. #10  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    I own an AR-15 that is semi auto but is one shoot per trigger pull. It seems to be considered an assault weapon even though it doesn't have multiple fire capabilities without significant modification.
    Most of the banned weapons under the Clinton ban were due to cosmetic features, such as flash suppressors and bayonet lugs. It's like calling an illegal immigrant an undocumented worker, in that it deliberately blurs the critical distinctions so that the left gets to define the debate on its terms. Whenever somebody demands an assault weapon ban, you should explain the difference and remind them that assault weapons, as defined by DOD policy and US law, are already illegal.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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