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  1. #71  
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    Sounds to me like checkmate.

    If we raise taxes, jobs will suffer, and the economy won't grow.
    And the economy can't grow unless we cut taxes so that everyone can spend more.
    I don't think taxing the rich will have any effect, one way or the other.

    Checkmate.

    It is the same thing that happened in Japan. They used to be on top of the world, but spent too much borrowed money and outran their ability to pay it back when their economy stopped growing about 20 years ago.

    Only this time, I think, it's going to effect the entire world; there is not a growing economy left. We are all checkmated.

    What now?
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  2. #72  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Sounds to me like checkmate.

    If we raise taxes, jobs will suffer, and the economy won't grow.
    And the economy can't grow unless we cut taxes so that everyone can spend more.
    I don't think taxing the rich will have any effect, one way or the other.

    Checkmate.

    It is the same thing that happened in Japan. They used to be on top of the world, but spent too much borrowed money and outran their ability to pay it back when their economy stopped growing about 20 years ago.

    Only this time, I think, it's going to effect the entire world; there is not a growing economy left. We are all checkmated.

    What now?
    You do what individuals used to do only at the government level. You only spend on bare essentials, I can't take a government seriously that pays 425.00 per gal. for diesel made from algae when the going rate for diesel is only 3.50 per gallon, Obama is not even trying to cut back.


    In October 2010 the Navy purchased 20,055 gallons of algae biofuel at an eye-watering cost of $424/gallon.
    http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Ener...a-Attempt.html
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  3. #73  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    You do what individuals used to do only at the government level. You only spend on bare essentials, I can't take a government seriously that pays 425.00 per gal. for diesel made from algae when the going rate for diesel is only 3.50 per gallon, Obama is not even trying to cut back.


    In October 2010 the Navy purchased 20,055 gallons of algae biofuel at an eye-watering cost of $424/gallon.
    http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Ener...a-Attempt.html
    The green spending is out of control.

    If they want to waste some money, why don't they try and get the price of diesel down?
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  4. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobJohnson View Post
    The green spending is out of control.

    If they want to waste some money, why don't they try and get the price of diesel down?
    Dunno about the price of diesel, but I really don't think it's going down.

    Fact is, it costs an average of 80$ to get a barrel of oil out of the ground. That's 44 gal to the barrel, and in that 44 gallon barrel is about 20 gallons of gas, and 10 of diesel. Than, a lot of other things.

    But I do believe that diesel trucks will some day run on liquified natural gas, and that day is not far off. The refueling stations are being built in the truck stops by Clean Air (CLNE) and natural gas powered big engines are being outfitted by Westport (WPRT), and both companies are well along on the project. So it's no longer just a dream.

    Good news is, the free market is doing this on its own. The government will be along later to screw with it.
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  5. #75  
    Ancient Fire Breather Retread's Avatar
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    What I haven't seen yet is a road tax on LNG. If there is, it will go up. If there isn't, it won't be long until there is.

    Couple of farm kids from home converted their '57 Chevy to LPG. LPG was only used on the farms for the tractors and such so there was no highway tax. Kids drove virtually free compared to us gasoline users.
    It's not how old you are, it's how you got here.
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  6. #76  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Retread View Post
    What I haven't seen yet is a road tax on LNG. If there is, it will go up. If there isn't, it won't be long until there is.

    Couple of farm kids from home converted their '57 Chevy to LPG. LPG was only used on the farms for the tractors and such so there was no highway tax. Kids drove virtually free compared to us gasoline users.
    My grandparents did this years ago on a full size van they owned. My grandfather was a WWII vet and it was a very long haul from rural IL to Iowa City, IA for his montly appointments. LPG burns very clean inside the engine. Several taxi companies were doing this and so were the Schwans delivery trucks.

    My grandparents had a tank and a pump so they could fuel up at home. No one close to where they lived sold LPG for vehicles
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  7. #77  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobJohnson View Post
    .............My grandparents had a tank and a pump so they could fuel up at home. No one close to where they lived sold LPG for vehicles....
    Honda Civic Natural Gas can be fueled by a device they are calling the Phill, which takes natural gas from your home supply and fuels the car overnight. It takes overnight to fuel up because gas pressure inside the home is only around 1/4 PSI.
    http://http://www.edmunds.com/autoob...l-station.html
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  8. #78  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Honda Civic Natural Gas can be fueled by a device they are calling the Phill, which takes natural gas from your home supply and fuels the car overnight. It takes overnight to fuel up because gas pressure inside the home is only around 1/4 PSI.
    http://http://www.edmunds.com/autoob...l-station.html
    I remember a few years ago car makers trying ideas like this. If you can only fuel up at home, I just don't see those types of vehicles catching on. The exception would be fleet vehicles that have a scheduled amount of daily downtime.


    "Sorry son, I can't take you to practice right now, the Honda won't be full until morning."
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  9. #79  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobJohnson View Post
    I remember a few years ago car makers trying ideas like this. If you can only fuel up at home, I just don't see those types of vehicles catching on. The exception would be fleet vehicles that have a scheduled amount of daily downtime.


    "Sorry son, I can't take you to practice right now, the Honda won't be full until morning."
    Yeah. I remember seeing it years ago, and it just never caught on. It's going slow now, too, but Honda has their car out, California has some 150 refueling sites, and nationwide there are about 1000.

    And the savings for car owners isn't there today, either; the price for a Gas Gallon Equivalent is 2.89, so it's not worth paying extra what with the inconvenience, and all. But that's just TODAY. Start another war; price of oil goes up; all bets are off.

    Fleet vehicles are catching on, big time. Clean Air, who refuels most of them, will report about 340 million in sales this year.
    And cars may never catch on. They may run on gas forever.
    Big trucks, will, though. There is 1.50 a gallon difference in price between diesel and LNG (Liquified Natural Gas), and since 18 wheelers use 20,000 of fuel/year and run for 1,000,000 miles (7 years) or more the difference is attractive.

    I am hoping Obama and Co. will stay out of it. A far stretch, I know, but I am hopeful. We sure as hell don't want him in there "creating jobs".
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  10. #80  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck View Post
    Yeah. I remember seeing it years ago, and it just never caught on. It's going slow now, too, but Honda has their car out, California has some 150 refueling sites, and nationwide there are about 1000.

    And the savings for car owners isn't there today, either; the price for a Gas Gallon Equivalent is 2.89, so it's not worth paying extra what with the inconvenience, and all. But that's just TODAY. Start another war; price of oil goes up; all bets are off.

    Fleet vehicles are catching on, big time. Clean Air, who refuels most of them, will report about 340 million in sales this year.
    And cars may never catch on. They may run on gas forever.
    Big trucks, will, though. There is 1.50 a gallon difference in price between diesel and LNG (Liquified Natural Gas), and since 18 wheelers use 20,000 of fuel/year and run for 1,000,000 miles (7 years) or more the difference is attractive.

    I am hoping Obama and Co. will stay out of it. A far stretch, I know, but I am hopeful. We sure as hell don't want him in there "creating jobs".
    There is not as much energy in a gallon of LNG as a gallon of diesel, unless you have your own gas well it will cost you more to operate.
    I have a propane powered truck and all i would need is a different tank to use LNG instead of propane, there is even less power in LNG than the propane so I would not save a dime. As it is the propane truck stays parked almost all the time, I get less than half the miles per dollar of operating cost with it.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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