The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

**Odysseus** · 01-31-2013, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by PeterS

All the freebies are also avaliable under republican presidents so why would this be a deciding factor? As with most conservative arguments this makes little sense. And when you break down the ominous 47% they are made up of retirees, military, students, low middle income families, and the disadvantaged. At best Obama spit this group which leaves the middle and upper income as the ones who put him in office so the question begged for conservatives is why they've lost control of this group which should be their bread and butter. Unless republicans can answer this they have no chance in future elections...that is unless their gerrymandering works.

Wrong. The 47% referred to those Americans who pay no taxes, but still get government services. Here is the full quote, with the question that prompted it:

Question: “For the past three years, all everybody’s been told is,“Don’t worry. We’ll take care of you.” How are you going to do it, in two months before the elections to convince everybody, you’ve got to take care of yourself?”.

Romney reply: “Uh, well there are 47% of the people who will VOTE for the President no matter what. All right, there are 47% who are with him, who are dependent upon the government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing, to you name it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will VOTE for this President no matter what. And the, the President starts off with 48,49, 4–, he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. 47 percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our MESSAGE of low taxes doesn’t connect. He’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that’s what they sell every, every 4 years. And, uh, so my job is not to worry about those few. I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is to CONVINCE the 5 to 10 percent in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at VOTING one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not……”.

Now, if you want to argue that military personnel pay no income tax, well, you can take that up with Mrs. O, but I wouldn't get too close when you say it. Retirees pay income taxes on their pensions, including Social Security, and any income that they have from investments or dividends. The people that you mentioned who do fall into that 47% are the "disadvantaged" (which is basically a catchall for welfare recipients), students (although those who work while going to school do pay taxes), low-income families and a few other fringe demographics.

Originally Posted by PeterS

That only means that no one votes not that my statement is false. Obama carrried every high income state out there. The poor voted for Romney not Obama...

That's only if you assume that the rich are the majority of voters in all of those states, not exactly a safe bet. The demogrpahic data from the election shows that Obama won among the richest and poorest voters, with Romney doing best among the middle class. Looking at the electoral map by county shows that the most affluent areas went for Obama:

Note that the overwhelming majority of Democratic voters were concentrated in urban areas in the states that Obama carried. Those are among the most affluent regions in America.

**NJCardFan** · 01-31-2013, 03:24 PM

Is it me or does it look like a majority of the counties voted for Romney? Goes to show you how the population works. Also, look along the Mexican border. Those were majority blue. Wonder how many illegals voted in those areas.

**Retread** · 01-31-2013, 10:00 PM

PeterS - The dome is still calling....

**noonwitch** · 02-01-2013, 10:16 AM

If republicans keep chalking up the lost election to "free stuff" and the "47%", they will never win another Presidential election because they are clueless.

Why did women vote for Obama? Because of dumbass republicans who talk about "legitimate" or "forcible" rape. Yes, it was only 3 candidates and they all lost, but it's the kind of thing that insults women's intelligence.

And, in a related topic, the GOP does not recognize that the majority of Americans support Roe v Wade, whatever label they choose to use when responding to polls on the issue. I'm not saying that they have to change their anti abortion stand, but some of the extremes that it is taken to appears to be far more about humiliating women who seek abortions than about "saving babies".

More than any ethnic group in the US, women decide elections. We are the majority of the population. Sure, there are some conservative women, obviously there are plenty at this site.

BTW all those silly maps showing what regions of the country vote which way don't matter. Votes are what matters. Large numbers of voters live in urban areas. The majority of voters get their way. That's the way it goes in a democratic republic, and it's a far better system than a monarchy. I know that is really bugging some, including the GOP in my state, because they are considering changing the way we count votes.

**Unreconstructed Reb** · 02-01-2013, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Odysseus

Wrong. The 47% referred to those Americans who pay no taxes, but still get government services. Here is the full quote, with the question that prompted it:

Question: “For the past three years, all everybody’s been told is,“Don’t worry. We’ll take care of you.” How are you going to do it, in two months before the elections to convince everybody, you’ve got to take care of yourself?”.

Romney reply: “Uh, well there are 47% of the people who will VOTE for the President no matter what. All right, there are 47% who are with him, who are dependent upon the government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing, to you name it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will VOTE for this President no matter what. And the, the President starts off with 48,49, 4–, he starts off with a huge number. These are people who pay no income tax. 47 percent of Americans pay no income tax. So our MESSAGE of low taxes doesn’t connect. He’ll be out there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that’s what they sell every, every 4 years. And, uh, so my job is not to worry about those few. I’ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I have to do is to CONVINCE the 5 to 10 percent in the center that are independents, that are thoughtful, that look at VOTING one way or the other depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not……”.

Now, if you want to argue that military personnel pay no income tax, well, you can take that up with Mrs. O, but I wouldn't get too close when you say it. Retirees pay income taxes on their pensions, including Social Security, and any income that they have from investments or dividends. The people that you mentioned who do fall into that 47% are the "disadvantaged" (which is basically a catchall for welfare recipients), students (although those who work while going to school do pay taxes), low-income families and a few other fringe demographics.

That's only if you assume that the rich are the majority of voters in all of those states, not exactly a safe bet. The demogrpahic data from the election shows that Obama won among the richest and poorest voters, with Romney doing best among the middle class. Looking at the electoral map by county shows that the most affluent areas went for Obama:

Note that the overwhelming majority of Democratic voters were concentrated in urban areas in the states that Obama carried. Those are among the most affluent regions in America.

Well, you've done it again. You've destroyed a perfectly legitimate liberal lie with those pesky facts. Haven't you learned by now that progressives are encouraged and allowed to lie if it furthers The Agenda!! How dare you smack down a progressive using truth. You'd better be careful, pal, or you're going to get the BanHammer!

**Starbuck** · 02-01-2013, 10:44 AM