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  1. #1 To Put Another Way, the Wall Street People Crapped the Bed – Let Them Sleep in It. . 
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
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    BAILOUT ISN'T WORTH IT, I’ve changed my mind.

    After about three days of wide-eyed faith in the smart boys in Washington, this deal is starting to smell like what it is.

    Bull crap.

    The entire Wall Street bailout. It’s nothing but stinking bull crap. It’s the biggest money and power grab in the history of our country. It guts the Constitution, it financially enslaves us and our children, it essentially bankrupts our nation, and it violates every rule of fair play there is.

    Economic collapse is preferable to this deal.
    And I think we ought to call their bluff.


    Just because the secretary of this and the chairman of that tell us that a global financial meltdown is just days away, that doesn’t make it so. These same people have been wrong about everything else they’ve predicted since this difficulty began. I personally don’t feel any obligation to believe their sky-is-falling routine.

    And even if they’re right, I’d rather take the economic hit and work our way out of it than commit the sins against our Republic that are all through this immoral scheme.
    ................................
    And this is exactly that – immoral.
    It is immoral to make working Americans pay for the failings and greed of individuals and companies on Wall Street.
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    It is immoral to make responsible people clean up the mess of irresponsible people
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    It is immoral to put this vast amount of money and power into the hands of one man or one committee.
    .................................................. ................
    It is immoral to impose textbook socialism on American finance and business without the consent and cooperation of the people.
    .............................................
    It is immoral to give to government sweeping powers that cannot in any way be justified by a resort to the Constitution.
    .......................................
    It is immoral to heap such debt on the government or the taxpayer.
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    It is immoral to expect the American taxpayer to shoulder the cost of “saving” the world economy.
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    It is immoral for such a massive governmental move to be made without extensive and deliberate public input and debate.
    ..............................
    Put another way, the Wall Street people crapped the bed – let them sleep in it. .


    Working people didn’t cause the problem and working people shouldn’t be expected to clean up the problem. People who pay their mortgage shouldn’t have to pick up the tab for people who don’t pay their mortgage.

    And we shouldn’t abandon principle for expediency. Americans shouldn’t have to abandon their beliefs, the free market or their form of government because some business types got greedy and some government types got stupid.

    If the American economy is so mis-structured that the collapse of some alphabet-soup companies puts it over the edge, then maybe it needs to go over the edge. If we’re that weak, maybe we should knock it down and start over.

    We’ve gone through recessions before. We’ve gone through collapses before. We’ve been through economic hell in this country several times, but each one of those times – except, possibly, under FDR – we stuck by our Constitution and we stuck by our heritage. There’s no reason we ought to do any different this time.

    And there’s no reason we ought to believe that government debt – the root cause of so many of our economic problems – is the solution to this problem. Two wrongs don’t make a right, and this cure is worse than the disease. To saddle our economy with this debt will have a long and terrible impact on American workers, taxpayers and businesses.

    Far better to take our medicine now and get it over with. Better to weather the storm than to delay it and ultimately intensify it.

    So I’m not going along anymore. The negatives outweigh the positives. I don’t trust these people when they predict dire outcomes, and I don’t believe that those dire outcomes – should they happen – are worse than what the fatcats are trying to shove down our throats.

    Don’t sell out your principles for a mess of pottage. Don’t throw out the Constitution and capitalism because we’re in a tight spot. Stand like Americans, don’t capitulate like slaves. Men have fought and died for political and economic freedom, and Washington wants us to hand some of that back because of something we don’t understand on the evening news.

    This bailout is a bad thing.

    It is a first cousin to slavery.

    http://www.boblonsberry.com/writings...tory=2471&go=4
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member AlmostThere's Avatar
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    I agree with virtually every point you've made with one caveat. You say "If the American economy is so mis-structured that the collapse of some alphabet-soup companies puts it over the edge, then maybe it needs to go over the edge. If we’re that weak, maybe we should knock it down and start over."

    In a vacuum, I'd agree with that in a heartbeat. But the reality is we have enemies in this world we keep at bay through economic might and the influence that wields. If we were to knock it down and start over I believe our enemies would destroy us before we finished the first day of rebuilding.
    Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
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  3. #3  
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlmostThere View Post
    I agree with virtually every point you've made with one caveat. You say "If the American economy is so mis-structured that the collapse of some alphabet-soup companies puts it over the edge, then maybe it needs to go over the edge. If we’re that weak, maybe we should knock it down and start over."

    In a vacuum, I'd agree with that in a heartbeat. But the reality is we have enemies in this world we keep at bay through economic might and the influence that wields. If we were to knock it down and start over I believe our enemies would destroy us before we finished the first day of rebuilding.
    Don't let them blow smoke up your ass !

    The economy's fine.We are in no real danger.The market will twitter and drop as it always does but it will come back as it always does when there's a buck to be made.

    We have the strongest military in the world bar none.Any country that attempted to destroy us
    would havea very hard time of it.

    Sure some Arabs could sneak or build a chemical bomb and cause some damage but that would be about all.Russia or China are much too weak to attack us and I don't see anyone else capable of it !

    Fannie and Freddy were like a Democrat honey bucket with slush funds available to back Dodds,Franks,Kerry's and numerous liberal re election bids and now that's gone and they want it back !

    What the liberals want is for us to buy all of those old mortgages from Fannie/Freddy and replace their cash bucket while we hold worthless paper mortgages but no realestate .

    The combination of Barney Fag in the house and Dodd in the senate protected the slush funds at Freddy/Fannie from the Republicans attempts to clean it up.MC Cain and Bush tried seventeen times to force regulation on the slush funds and the liberals beat them back every time .

    The DE regulation of the old FHA began with Carter and exploded with Clinton into a dream for people who really couldn't afford to buy under the old rules but over extended themselves under the new rules.Carter and Clinton saw it as a way to greatly expand the liberal voting base and regain the Congress and White house and it worked for a while .

    Here do a search on this string (The DE regulation of the old FHA) and read what comes up !


    Nothing real has been lost Fannie and Freddy have spent all of their pool money and all the have is worthless paper when people who brought houses with cheap credit and folded when they had to pay mortgages, taxes and feed their family's while living in big new houses that they really couldn't afford
    so they walked away from them .

    They didn't have much to lose as they had little equity in the places and couldn't sell them.The property's are available for short money to anyone with funds to spend without borrowing .Houses in California are selling like hotcakes for cheap money right now.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member AlmostThere's Avatar
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    I'm not worried about the market dropping at all. The market has fallen, the market's crashed. But America's blood is business, so I would expect the market to rebound from anything eventually.

    But we are seeing major financial institutions fail on an almost daily basis. Institutions that had endured wars, recessions,and the Depression. These appeared to be healthy entities one day and the next they are seized by federal regulators. This may well resolve itself, but I wonder if it will happen in the 20 or 30 years I have left here. I'm not an economist but I'll be honest and say that scares the hell out of me.
    Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member NonConformist's Avatar
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    They will just print more money to cover the bailout and make the dollar worth even less.

    If they want to spend 700 Billion dollars id rather them refund us taxpayers some money, but AFA Im concerned those companies should be left to rot
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." -William Pitt




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