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  1. #11  
    Destroyer of Worlds Apocalypse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Any bets on how long Jessie Jr. stays in prison?
    They are saying five years but i will be amazed if he does one, I half way expect Obama to pull strings , but then again Jessie said something about cutting Obama's balls off a few years back.
    4 months, let out on "Good Behaviour".

    He's a (Lack of a better term) Celeb's son. He'll get the pamper prison, and let out with a nasty manicure.
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  2. #12  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaRepub View Post
    Get them all jobs guarding Lord Obama!!! What could go wrong???
    There are already enough thieves in this administration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Here is the problem with that. Should be, and IS are two different things. I'd love to see them try.

    Many states now have Right to Work laws that says employers can hire and fire at their discretion. Try and trump that. So really it will only come down to liberal union states, and even that will be tough because they have to "Prove" in a court of law they were not hired because of their record, and not because they were not qualified.

    They can bully all they want, but they get one company that stands up to them and its all over.
    The company that stands up to them will find itself under the guns of the IRS, the EEOC, the NLRB and a host of other alphabet agency fascists. That's the point of all of the bullying. They want control, and this is how they get it. If a state law bars the hiring of felons, they will sue the state, just as they sued Arizona over laws that enforced federal laws. They will abuse the states, employers, individuals, anyone who isn't willing to knuckle under to the criminals in the administration on behalf of the criminals that they are getting into jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    Any bets on how long Jessie Jr. stays in prison?
    They are saying five years but i will be amazed if he does one, I half way expect Obama to pull strings , but then again Jessie said something about cutting Obama's balls off a few years back.
    But, when he gets out of jail, he'll have a job in security waiting for him.
    --Odysseus
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post

    They can bully all they want, but they get one company that stands up to them and its all over.
    Not these days. You'll have the ACLU or some other "rights" organization with deep pockets litigate the hell out of the case to the point where it's cheaper to settle than stand up for their principles.

    And then every other business will fall in line.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

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    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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  4. #14  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    Not these days. You'll have the ACLU or some other "rights" organization with deep pockets litigate the hell out of the case to the point where it's cheaper to settle than stand up for their principles.

    And then every other business will fall in line.
    The ACLU will file suit, the Justice Department will file charges, the NLRB, the EEOC and the various other agencies with overlapping jurisdictions will levy fines. The company that defies this will have to be prepared to fight each agency in federal court as well as the private suits, and the private entities will collaborate with the federal government as if they were part of the same team, which they are.

    And, make no mistake about it, this is not just about principals, but about maintaining any semblance of competitive edge. Industrial espionage is a huge business, and forcing companies to take on obvious security risks guarantees that they will be vulnerable to leaks, theft and even sabotage.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarasotaRepub View Post
    Get them all jobs guarding Lord Obama!!! What could go wrong???
    There has to be some workable solution. I have had two former roommates whose lives had been severely affected, with a considerable amount of waste, due to convictions in young adulthood.

    Roomie A - Was convicted at age 18 of a huge drug crime because he was arrested at a concert with a stash of pills that because each pill is considered a unit for sale landed him some dreadful state prison for three years. He went in a pretty blond suburban youth who had done something stupid (albeit not uncommon amongst suburban youth) and came out damaged. He went on to graduate fro Northwestern only to find out that Americans with psychology degrees who speak fluent German and graduate in the top half of their class can't find work in a therapeutic environment because of a felony drug conviction. He works in a zoo for minimum wage. PS- he can't pay his student loans.

    Roomie B - Was damaged before he got arrested. I would say that he has at a minimum ADHD and possibly a couple of other popular personality disorders which is how he ended up in prison. He had joined a commune that turned him into a slave. When he popped, he attacked someone in the commune and was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon. He's strange, but he's not a danger to society and yet the "zero tolerance" mentality that we have in this country means that in certain occupations and workplaces the person hiring has no discretion.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member TVDOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    There has to be some workable solution. I have had two former roommates whose lives had been severely affected, with a considerable amount of waste, due to convictions in young adulthood.

    Roomie A - Was convicted at age 18 of a huge drug crime because he was arrested at a concert with a stash of pills that because each pill is considered a unit for sale landed him some dreadful state prison for three years. He went in a pretty blond suburban youth who had done something stupid (albeit not uncommon amongst suburban youth) and came out damaged. He went on to graduate fro Northwestern only to find out that Americans with psychology degrees who speak fluent German and graduate in the top half of their class can't find work in a therapeutic environment because of a felony drug conviction. He works in a zoo for minimum wage. PS- he can't pay his student loans.

    Roomie B - Was damaged before he got arrested. I would say that he has at a minimum ADHD and possibly a couple of other popular personality disorders which is how he ended up in prison. He had joined a commune that turned him into a slave. When he popped, he attacked someone in the commune and was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon. He's strange, but he's not a danger to society and yet the "zero tolerance" mentality that we have in this country means that in certain occupations and workplaces the person hiring has no discretion.
    Why is it that it is always someone (or something) else's fault with those of your political persuasion??

    Both of your examples got them busted and sent to jail (and rightfully so)......tough s**t.......they should have considered the consequences before the actions. Each of us has to wrestle our own demons, and conquer them to succeed, and everyone also has something in their past that they would have done differently......you people need to grow up and stop making excuses for peoples failings.

    I'm responsible for my own actions, as is everyone else........cry me a river......

    doc
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The ACLU will file suit, the Justice Department will file charges, the NLRB, the EEOC and the various other agencies with overlapping jurisdictions will levy fines. The company that defies this will have to be prepared to fight each agency in federal court as well as the private suits, and the private entities will collaborate with the federal government as if they were part of the same team, which they are.

    And, make no mistake about it, this is not just about principals, but about maintaining any semblance of competitive edge. Industrial espionage is a huge business, and forcing companies to take on obvious security risks guarantees that they will be vulnerable to leaks, theft and even sabotage.

    Aren't we really talking about the ability of someone convicted of a nonviolent crime being able to get a job on the loading dock?

    Seriously, we complain about black men not working and this is a big reason why many black men can't find jobs. There is a race issue here.

    Example- my cousin has a son who did many things to destroy his future. There are suspected causes for his behavior (like the fact that my cousin's exwife is a worthless POS) but society is unconcerned by causes. In any event, he got into trouble for drugs a couple of times. He went to jail. He got out. My cousin laid out some serious conditions under which he would attempt to rescue his son's life and son agreed.... and went to work for my cousin's business. The pool of black parents who have businesses which can offer employment to an otherwise unemployable child is much smaller than it is for whites. This is what people mean when they talk about the legacy of racism or institutional racism.

    Over all, I think that the white guys in prison who manage to get out with their good looks and charm in tact have a much better chance of finding someone to take a chance on them than almost any black guy convicted of a similar crime.

    No, life isn't fair. I get that. At the same time, it wouldn't hurt to try to find a way to help these people. Punishing employers isn't the right way to go about it, but there has to be a way.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVDOC View Post
    Why is it that it is always someone (or something) else's fault with those of your political persuasion??

    Both of your examples got them busted and sent to jail (and rightfully so)......tough s**t.......they should have considered the consequences before the actions. Each of us has to wrestle our own demons, and conquer them to succeed, and everyone also has something in their past that they would have done differently......you people need to grow up and stop making excuses for peoples failings.

    I'm responsible for my own actions, as is everyone else........cry me a river......

    doc
    How is your attitude at all productive?

    It costs an average of $30K/inmate/year to incarcerate. Parolees and releaseds who can't find work have a habit of ending up back in jail.

    The point isn't that it's someone else's fault. These people are quite aware that they broke the law. But the punishment was supposed to be for 3 years, you know, that "I paid my debt to society." thing. But people like you seem to want people to pay for life and in the process you are pretty much guaranteeing that the taxpayer is the one who pays for life.

    This is not a new discussion. It used to be that a felon couldn't get a realtor license. IN a classic joke on society, prisons taught guys to be barbers but when you got out the state wouldn't license a felon as a barber.

    We're talking about millions of people of working age. My lawn guy and helper is a convicted felon. While I enjoy his cheap labor, at some point he will become a burden on society because he's paying no taxes and has no health care.
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  9. #19  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    There has to be some workable solution. I have had two former roommates whose lives had been severely affected, with a considerable amount of waste, due to convictions in young adulthood.

    Roomie A - Was convicted at age 18 of a huge drug crime because he was arrested at a concert with a stash of pills that because each pill is considered a unit for sale landed him some dreadful state prison for three years. He went in a pretty blond suburban youth who had done something stupid (albeit not uncommon amongst suburban youth) and came out damaged. He went on to graduate fro Northwestern only to find out that Americans with psychology degrees who speak fluent German and graduate in the top half of their class can't find work in a therapeutic environment because of a felony drug conviction. He works in a zoo for minimum wage. PS- he can't pay his student loans.

    Roomie B - Was damaged before he got arrested. I would say that he has at a minimum ADHD and possibly a couple of other popular personality disorders which is how he ended up in prison. He had joined a commune that turned him into a slave. When he popped, he attacked someone in the commune and was convicted of assault with a deadly weapon. He's strange, but he's not a danger to society and yet the "zero tolerance" mentality that we have in this country means that in certain occupations and workplaces the person hiring has no discretion.
    Okay, so we hire Roomie A as a counselor in a drug treatment center, and maybe he doesn't have a relapse into drug use. If not, fine, but if he does, or someone else does on his watch and tries to shift the blame to him, he ends up on the outs again, and the guy who hired him ends up embroiled in a scandal. It's not a legal zero tolerance in this case, it's a calculated risk on the part of the employer. If he reverts to his background, they could be subject to all manner of liability, and there is no shortage of law-school graduates, with or without drug convictions, who would happily sue on behalf of anyone with the semblance of a claim. Thank the trial lawyers for that kind of idiocy. As for Roomie B, same problem. Putting him in any employment situation where he could cause bodily harm is a risk that most employers will not take. And, let's remember that the people who gave us this kind of litigious climate are also the people who gave use communes, a drug culture and a host of other societal ills. You can thank the liberals of the 60s for the wrecked lives that followed their summers of love and days of rage.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member TVDOC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    No, life isn't fair. I get that. At the same time, it wouldn't hurt to try to find a way to help these people. Punishing employers isn't the right way to go about it, but there has to be a way.
    I can agree with the bolded part......I wouldn't hire a felon........ever.......even if the government mandates it, can you imagine the insurance and bonding issues that this would create??

    The entire argument about "institutional racism" and blacks, is simply bulls**t...... The nasty little secret that the media will never cover is the FBI crime statistics, i.e., black males (6% of the population) commit more than half the violent crimes in the US (murder, assult, rape, armed robbery). If black males between the ages of 14 and 45 were to magically disappear from the US, our crime statistics would be simliar to Finland.......

    Black or white, if they are in prison, it is because a "jury of their peers" put them there. The system doesn't always work smoothly, or correctly, but it is the best system yet devised.

    The prison population isn't a race problem, it's a culture problem, and it's not up to me to fix that issue, they have to do it for themselves.......I'm not optimistic......

    doc
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