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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Several things swung the vote.
    And the swing vote swung liberal. You can't maintain that the liberal won at the percentages you presented unless the swing vote swung liberal.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    #2, the GOP ran a weak candidate ....
    You call him weak in retrospect. You thought he was going to win and win huge! But the swing vote swung liberal.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Most who voted for Obama voted for him because they don't want to lose their gravy train.
    One of the more hypocritical features of the recent election and since was the number of people who get government paychecks, pensions, healthcare, or assistance who were screaming about Obamacare and Socialism.

    You are still trying to convince yourself that the Republican actually won the election, or would have if people were simply as smart as you are. Plenty of people who are smarter than you are made difficult decisions of priorities in the last election. And they voted for Obama, not because Romney was weak, but because of what he said he would do.
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    , they should have been able to run a shoe and win based on Obama's performance, but Romney, after a strong showing in the 1st debate, completely shit the bed on the other 2 by not playing up Benghazi as well as the state of the economy.
    Maybe that's why the swing vote swung liberal: because they didn't see it as a game. Economies adapt. Anti-social law has a habit of hanging on.


    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    .... a media propaganda machine that is basically the entire MSM aside from Fox News, talk radio and some minor publications.
    So you're bitching because we don't have a Fairness Doctrine? And how exactly is it that the ruggedly individualistic high productivity genius with money conservatives which are by your reckoning a majority not met by a fawning media intent on catering to their preferred client base? Does not the free market respond to demographics?


    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Nothing of what I stated can be refuted.
    In 2004 Bush got 62,040,610 votes. Kerry 59,028,444
    In 2008 McCain got 59,948,323 votes. Obama 69,498,516
    In 2012 Romney got 60,931,767 votes. Obama 65,907,213
    In 2000 Bush got 50,456,002 votes. Gore 50,999,897.

    Who are these voters who stayed home? Even if we assume that the difference between Romney and Bush's high were all "conservatives" rather than swing voters, then the most we can move into Romney's total would be 1,108,843 votes leaving him almost 4 million votes shy?

    These voters who stayed home are either imaginary or habitual. If they don't vote conservative it's rather difficult to call them conservative voters.
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Given that the percentages don't produce the expected results, then the logical thing to do would be to question the terminology. If a person has to be one or the other, than of the 40% unaccounted for, the majority would appear to lean liberal.

    The most likely explantation is what is easily observed just by asking around: most people are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. So what defines these groups on election day would be a variable priority.
    Or, that the average person doesn't necessarily know what liberal and conservative mean. Or, that in the case of the last two presidential elections, the media's constant drumbeat against McCain and Romney proved decisive, especially among low-information voters. In a number of polls, when self-identified Obama voters were presented with conservative policy positions and told that they were supported by Obama, they often favored them, which tells me that the policies weren't the issue, the personalities and media saturation were.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  4. #14  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Maybe that's why the swing vote swung liberal: because they didn't see it as a game. Economies adapt. Anti-social law has a habit of hanging on.
    Negative. Tell yourself this BS all you want but it doesn't make it so. I truly believe that the media saturation fawning over Obama along with pop culture icons and the like, the deck is stacked against conservatives. Ever wonder why the left never talk about the economy come election time? Because they can't defend it. In this past election, the left, with the help of their propaganda machine pushed toe blame on the Republican congress and IMO a majority of the people who vote aren't smart enough to sift through the bullshit to see the forest through the trees. Pile on that the GOP is either not smart enough or it's leadership it complicit in what the left is doing to get out there and really start spreading the facts. Instead, they got into stupid pissing contests about so called women's rights and such which took the focus away from the true argument which was the economy. Fact is, the election was being handed to the Republicans on a silver platter but they decided to ignore it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    So you're bitching because we don't have a Fairness Doctrine? And how exactly is it that the ruggedly individualistic high productivity genius with money conservatives which are by your reckoning a majority not met by a fawning media intent on catering to their preferred client base? *Does not the free market respond to demographics?*
    Where did I even approach this? I didn't. However, you have habitual news watchers. Believe it or not, not everyone has cable TV so their news comes from either the newspaper or the 3 major networks which all swing left. Top it off the millions and millions who could care less either way but who are Obama supporters because his propaganda machine helped by Hollywood and a bulk of the entertainment industry to make him appear to be cool, this is what swings their vote. Conservatives are portrayed ad stodgy, old white men while liberals and Democrats are portrayed to be hip(Bill Clinton playing the sax anyone?). Yes, there are conservative entertainers but they are few and far between or who don't make waves in fear that they will get blacklisted. As for cable news networks, Fox is still tops in the ratings, however, even their ratings can't trump the major 3 network news stations. CNN is back by Ted Turner money(if you saw how he ran WCW you'd see how he literally burns money) while CBS and NBC are backed by major corporations(NBC by GE and now Comcast and CBS after being owned by Westinghouse, eventually incorporated itself, and ABC is owned by Disney). Fox doesn't have the ability to be provided on free TV airways the way NBC, ABC, CBS have. CNN and MSNBC tank in the ratings regularly but they have big money behind them. I guarantee you that if even one of the major networks leaned right, the information wars would be a lot closer. Facts are facts. You can take them or leave them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post




    In 2004 Bush got 62,040,610 votes. Kerry 59,028,444
    In 2008 McCain got 59,948,323 votes. Obama 69,498,516
    In 2012 Romney got 60,931,767 votes. Obama 65,907,213
    In 2000 Bush got 50,456,002 votes. Gore 50,999,897.

    Who are these voters who stayed home? Even if we assume that the difference between Romney and Bush's high were all "conservatives" rather than swing voters, then the most we can move into Romney's total would be 1,108,843 votes leaving him almost 4 million votes shy?

    These voters who stayed home are either imaginary or habitual. If they don't vote conservative it's rather difficult to call them conservative voters.
    We have a few right here on these boards. They can't be the only ones. However, the voters staying home, if you bothered to read my entire post was just one aspect of why Romney lost. Re-read it again, just don't glean what you want. The main reason is that the voters voted for free stuff. That amounts to 70% of the reason why Obama won. Simply put, you can't run against Santa Claus.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Negative. Tell yourself this BS all you want but it doesn't make it so. I truly believe that the media saturation fawning over Obama along with pop culture icons and the like, the deck is stacked against conservatives. Ever wonder why the left never talk about the economy come election time? Because they can't defend it. In this past election, the left, with the help of their propaganda machine pushed toe blame on the Republican congress and IMO a majority of the people who vote aren't smart enough to sift through the bullshit to see the forest through the trees. Pile on that the GOP is either not smart enough or it's leadership it complicit in what the left is doing to get out there and really start spreading the facts. Instead, they got into stupid pissing contests about so called women's rights and such which took the focus away from the true argument which was the economy. Fact is, the election was being handed to the Republicans on a silver platter but they decided to ignore it.



    Where did I even approach this? I didn't. However, you have habitual news watchers. Believe it or not, not everyone has cable TV so their news comes from either the newspaper or the 3 major networks which all swing left. Top it off the millions and millions who could care less either way but who are Obama supporters because his propaganda machine helped by Hollywood and a bulk of the entertainment industry to make him appear to be cool, this is what swings their vote. Conservatives are portrayed ad stodgy, old white men while liberals and Democrats are portrayed to be hip(Bill Clinton playing the sax anyone?). Yes, there are conservative entertainers but they are few and far between or who don't make waves in fear that they will get blacklisted. As for cable news networks, Fox is still tops in the ratings, however, even their ratings can't trump the major 3 network news stations. CNN is back by Ted Turner money(if you saw how he ran WCW you'd see how he literally burns money) while CBS and NBC are backed by major corporations(NBC by GE and now Comcast and CBS after being owned by Westinghouse, eventually incorporated itself, and ABC is owned by Disney). Fox doesn't have the ability to be provided on free TV airways the way NBC, ABC, CBS have. CNN and MSNBC tank in the ratings regularly but they have big money behind them. I guarantee you that if even one of the major networks leaned right, the information wars would be a lot closer. Facts are facts. You can take them or leave them.




    We have a few right here on these boards. They can't be the only ones. However, the voters staying home, if you bothered to read my entire post was just one aspect of why Romney lost. Re-read it again, just don't glean what you want. The main reason is that the voters voted for free stuff. That amounts to 70% of the reason why Obama won. Simply put, you can't run against Santa Claus.

    Thats why a Republican will never win, you can't run on the platform of cutting freebie's
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    Thats why a Republican will never win, you can't run on the platform of cutting freebie's
    That's why I said it's indisputable. As long as entitlements are expanded, there is no way anyone, Republican or Democrat, could never win even suggesting cutting back on entitlements.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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