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  1. #11 Rand Paul Filibustering Brennan CIA Nomination 
    Junior Member Friknnewguy's Avatar
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    Just finished reading his book "Government Bullies", excellent read , this guy seems like the real deal .
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  2. #12  
    Administrator SaintLouieWoman's Avatar
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    I admire him. At least one Republican is showing some guts. Glad that Lee and Cruz and the one dem have joined him. I hope more have the courage to join him in this. If the Republicans united more, they'd get more done. Heard that Obama's approval numbers have gone down this week. Obama just needs to have his feet held to the fire.

    Hopefully our citizens are finally waking up to the lies of the current Regime.
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  3. #13 Rand Paul Filibustering Brennan CIA Nomination 
    Senior Ape Articulate_Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Yeah, killing terrorists requires further discussion, but blatant antisemitism an bumbling incoherence at the confirmation hearing isn't an issue? Seriously?

    Sic hacer pace, para bellum.
    Sent from my android.
    What happens when the defInition of "terrorists" is stretched to encompass those that disagree with the POTUS or the ruling party. Our nation was built upon the rule of law for a reason, Ody. Let's not let ourselves get caught up in the ardor to destroy our enemies to the degree that we allow our own liberties to become casualties. Paul is standing up for a very important principle here.
    "The efforts of the government alone will never be enough. In the end the people must choose and the people must help themselves" ~ JFK; from his famous inauguration speech (What Democrats sounded like before today's neo-Liberals hijacked that party)
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  4. #14  
    Administrator SaintLouieWoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Articulate_Ape View Post
    What happens when the defInition of "terrorists" is stretched to encompass those that disagree with the POTUS or the ruling party. Our nation was built upon the rule of law for a reason, Ody. Let's not let ourselves get caught up in the ardor to destroy our enemies to the degree that we allow our own liberties to become casualties. Paul is standing up for a very important principle here.
    It's so unusual for someone to actually stand on principle. Paul is a rare politician. Thank God that there are still people like him around.

    Here's a list I picked up from the internet, actually from an NBC news report, of those who helped him in the filibuster. They also need to be commended for taking a stand and helping him.

    In a sign that Paul's cause had moved beyond just the most conservative wing of the party, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell - Paul's fellow Kentuckian who is facing re-election in 2014 - joined close to midnight to offer support for Paul's "tenacity and conviction" and to announce that he will oppose CIA nominee John Brennan's confirmation.
    Republican Sens. Mike Lee of Utah, Ted Cruz and John Cornyn of Texas, Jerry Moran of Kansas, Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, Marco Rubio of Florida, Jeff Flake of Arizona, Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, Tim Scott of South Carolina, John Thune of South Dakota and John Barrasso of Wyoming -- as well as Democrat Ron Wyden of Oregon -- also participated
    I think some of them were at O's dinner party and must have gone to support Rand Paul after the dinner.
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  5. #15  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Articulate_Ape View Post
    What happens when the defInition of "terrorists" is stretched to encompass those that disagree with the POTUS or the ruling party. Our nation was built upon the rule of law for a reason, Ody. Let's not let ourselves get caught up in the ardor to destroy our enemies to the degree that we allow our own liberties to become casualties. Paul is standing up for a very important principle here.
    You don't let it go that far. The Americans who have been hit by drones in the Middle East were al Qaeda members, serving with that organization overseas. They had declared themselves to be enemy combatants, and as such, were legitimate targets. Again, think precedent. During WWII, there were Americans of German descent who went back to Germany to fight for the Reich against the US. When met on the battlefield, they were killed, just like the others wearing German uniforms. The 101st Airborne didn't stop to read them their rights and detain them. If you openly identify yourself as an enemy combatant and operate under their flag in a war zone, you are a legitimate target. If, OTOH, an American citizen in CONUS announces that he is a member of al Qaeda, and conspires with them, it's a criminal justice issue and the full Constitutional protections apply.

    And I would have liked for him to have stood up for the principal that the SECDEF ought to, I don't know, be able to answer a couple of questions coherently at his confirmation hearings, especially as they apply to his feelings about nations that have sworn to destroy us? After all, it is the highest civilian defense position, wouldn't it be nice if the guy tapped for the job could explain how he feels about some of the greatest threats in the world, or do we just assume that we don't have to win any more wars while the administration is replacing our dependence on fossil fuels with unicorn farts?
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Anyone listening to McCain and Lindsey Graham today know the deal. McCain was out making deals with Obama last night while Rand, Lee, and Cruz were fighting the good fight and being Conservatives.

    GOP is changing. McCain and Graham need to go.
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  7. #17  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Excellent discussion regarding Holder's arguments on drones, courtesy of National Review:




    The Corner
    The one and only.

    Holder, Drones, and Due Process
    By John Yoo

    In his latest misstep, Attorney General Eric Holder is refusing to rule out the possibility of using armed drones against American citizens within the United States. According to a letter he sent to Senator Rand Paul, as Charles C. W. Cooke noted, Holder said that the use of lethal force would be “entirely hypothetical, unlikely to occur, and one we hope no president will ever have to confront,” but might be necessary to stop a “catastrophic attack” like the December 7, 1941, or September 11, 2001, attacks on the homeland. Holder may have the right idea, but because of his misunderstanding of the law and his political tin ear, he is only frightening the American people — though this seems to be the administration’s preferred approach to politics these days.

    Holder’s first mistake is that he thinks that the use of force by drones, no matter where or against whom, is governed by due process. Recall the Justice Department white paper on drones, which asserted that lethal force could not be used against al-Qaeda members unless they could not be captured, harm to the United States was imminent, and due process allows the attack — concepts that govern law-enforcement officers who might need to shoot an attacking criminal, but have never governed the use of force by the military in wartime. Drones don’t change this equation — the same rules should govern snipers, artillery, aerial, and missile attack, which all also attack the enemy from a distance and often by surprise. But since Holder has made the claim that the drone attacks abroad somehow meet law-enforcement standards, it is an easy step for him to say that those same diluted, weakened standards don’t pose much barrier to the use of drones at home.

    Instead, what Holder should have said is that the U.S. would only be able to use drones on U.S. soil under the same conditions it might use military force domestically — to stop an invasion by a foreign country or an attack. And it is not because due process somehow allows it, but because the nation is entitled to use military force against foreign attack. So it is not just December 7 or September 11 that uniquely call for military force because the U.S. is responding to an attack on the nation.
    What about an invasion, as in the War of 1812, or the Civil War, or, on a smaller scale, a situation like the Mumbai terrorist attacks where groups of heavily armed terrorists attacked high-profile, civilian targets not with airliners, but with light arms. If the federal government can use military force, such as troops or helicopters to stop those kinds of attacks, surely it can use drones. But where Holder and this administration are causing fear is because, if they believe the use of drones now, abroad, meet law-enforcement standards, then they believe they could use drones in similar situations domestically to enforce the laws, not to respond to attack. And that is manifestly wrong as a legal matter as well as mistaken as a matter of policy.




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    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Anyone listening to McCain and Lindsey Graham today know the deal. McCain was out making deals with Obama last night while Rand, Lee, and Cruz were fighting the good fight and being Conservatives.

    GOP is changing. McCain and Graham need to go.
    And Cryin' John Boehner needs to lead the way. I thought Graham had said this was his last term, but maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Wood View Post
    And Cryin' John Boehner needs to lead the way. I thought Graham had said this was his last term, but maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.
    When Herman Cain get its over these dinosaurs.

    Herman Cain‏@THEHermanCain

    McCain and Graham brutally tearing into Rand Paul and his filibuster? #StandwithRandhttp://bit.ly/YDzbAc
    McCain and Graham just butt hurt that their brand of conservatism died last night.

    Both these bastards were breaking bread with Obama, while real work of getting the GOP on track was going on. They've been AWOL for many years now.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Just on Limbaugh a few minutes ago.

    nobody has been able to figure out a way to defeat the liberals...well actually there is....conservatism...and you saw a little of that with Rand Paul's filibuster
    .


    If the GOP would just remember that instead of settling.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
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