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  1. #11  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Somethings things are just so out of whack that it's impossible to take another side.
    And yet Candy Crowley found a way to do it.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Zathras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    Unbelieveable.
    These days nothing surprises me anymore, from the antics of the current administration to acts of the main sream media.
    Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf
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  3. #13  
    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    So, what you're saying is that Candy Crowley doesn't respect women?
    Perhaps. She certainly isn't acting sympathetic toward women right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Okay, so why is it that football players who are convicted of rape get sympathy from the media but college lacrosse players who are accused of rape (and who are proven to be innocent) ignite rage in the media? Remember how the NY Times ran over 100 articles on the Duke Lacrosse team, or how Nancy Grace ranted about them on CNN even as the case against them was falling apart? How is it that the rape culture is different in Ohio and North Carolina, or is there more to the story?

    It's not the "rape culture", it's the media culture.
    I think some of the issue is that the kids in Ohio were minors. There's a belief that minors should be given another chance. I do agree with that to a point. But honestly, they weren't punished that badly.
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  4. #14  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Perhaps. She certainly isn't acting sympathetic toward women right now.




    I think some of the issue is that the kids in Ohio were minors. There's a belief that minors should be given another chance. I do agree with that to a point. But honestly, they weren't punished that badly.
    Yes, they were minors, however, they are old enough to know right from wrong. As for being punished "badly", yeah the time in won't be long, however, good luck getting into college.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  5. #15  
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    I suggest that the teary-eyed Crowley commit herself to regular conjugal visits with these rapists.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member ReinMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Perhaps. She certainly isn't acting sympathetic toward women right now.




    I think some of the issue is that the kids in Ohio were minors. There's a belief that minors should be given another chance. I do agree with that to a point. But honestly, they weren't punished that badly.
    Absolutely should not have been tried as juveniles. Any bastard who uses his penis to commit a crime (rape, molestation, etc.) is no longer a 'child', by any definition of the word, and should be thrown into a hole just like an adult should be...
    We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.
    In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress.

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  7. #17  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Perhaps. She certainly isn't acting sympathetic toward women right now.
    No, but next election, she'll be repeating the "Republican War on Women" meme with the rest of the media. Try not to be fooled this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I think some of the issue is that the kids in Ohio were minors. There's a belief that minors should be given another chance. I do agree with that to a point. But honestly, they weren't punished that badly.
    Most of the Duke Lacrosse players were minors, and the two who were charged were 19 and 20, respectively. That didn't stop the media calls for blood. The issue isn't age, it's how the media constructs the story to fit its preconceived narrative. The Duke Lacrosse case was about rich white males assaulting a black woman. That set off the class, racial and feminist narratives. This case is about two lower-middle class kids, one black, assaulting a girl. The class and racial components work for the defendents this time, and trump the feminist narrative (which isn't in play, because let's face it, feminists only care about rape if the perps can be used to advance their cause).

    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Yes, they were minors, however, they are old enough to know right from wrong. As for being punished "badly", yeah the time in won't be long, however, good luck getting into college.
    Unfortunately, their juvenile records will be sealed, and they will still be eligible for football scholarships, and most colleges are willing to overlook an awful lot from athletes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReinMan View Post
    Absolutely should not have been tried as juveniles. Any bastard who uses his penis to commit a crime (rape, molestation, etc.) is no longer a 'child', by any definition of the word, and should be thrown into a hole just like an adult should be...
    Agreed.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  8. #18  
    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    No, but next election, she'll be repeating the "Republican War on Women" meme with the rest of the media. Try not to be fooled this time.
    I didn't listen to Candy. I listened to what the politicians said they were for and against, and read the pros and cons of each.

    Obama care isn't just about birth control. It's about women getting their check-ups for free under the insurance that's already paid for and finding problems before they progress. This includes preventive care, well woman visits, mammograms, and domestic violence screenings. Maternity care will now have to be covered in an insurance plan. It' also about eventually not being turned down by insurance when you need them the most. Imagine getting breast cancer, and your insurance company finds an excuse not to cover it. That's bull. This not only helps women, but men as well.

    More women will qualify for medicaid, which you all hate, but whatever.

    Women will no longer be charged more for being women. Women were being charged more, even on a lot of plans that didn't cover maternity care.

    It's been about so much more than just contraception.


    Most of the Duke Lacrosse players were minors, and the two who were charged were 19 and 20, respectively. That didn't stop the media calls for blood. The issue isn't age, it's how the media constructs the story to fit its preconceived narrative. The Duke Lacrosse case was about rich white males assaulting a black woman. That set off the class, racial and feminist narratives. This case is about two lower-middle class kids, one black, assaulting a girl. The class and racial components work for the defendents this time, and trump the feminist narrative (which isn't in play, because let's face it, feminists only care about rape if the perps can be used to advance their cause).
    I think you're probably right. People need to remember that women are a minority too. (Minority, as in group of people with less power, not less of them).
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  9. #19  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I didn't listen to Candy. I listened to what the politicians said they were for and against, and read the pros and cons of each.
    And then you voted for the socialist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Obama care isn't just about birth control. It's about women getting their check-ups for free under the insurance that's already paid for and finding problems before they progress. This includes preventive care, well woman visits, mammograms, and domestic violence screenings. Maternity care will now have to be covered in an insurance plan. It' also about eventually not being turned down by insurance when you need them the most. Imagine getting breast cancer, and your insurance company finds an excuse not to cover it. That's bull. This not only helps women, but men as well.
    You act like none of this was available before. And none of it will be "free", it will all be paid for in higher taxes, poorer quality, longer waits for service and all of the other ills that my wife had to deal with under Britain's NHS. Those "free" check-ups will take longer and longer to get, the time spent with each patient will be minimal and the preventive care will end up on the back burner because there won't be enough practitioners to deal with the volume. The domestic violence screenings won't do much if the women aren't prepared to dime out the men (assuming that it's not the women who are the violent ones, which is much more common than reported), but by all means, tell yourself that this time, it will be different, just like the battered women do when they go back to the their abusers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    More women will qualify for medicaid, which you all hate, but whatever.
    And fewer doctors will remain in the system as the payments for services continue to lag behind their actual costs. You keep forgetting that part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Women will no longer be charged more for being women. Women were being charged more, even on a lot of plans that didn't cover maternity care.
    I must have missed the "uterus tax." Certain services for women cost more, not because they are women, but because the nature of the services is more expensive. You act as if this is the result of a conspiracy, rather than economics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    It's been about so much more than just contraception.
    That's true. It's about taking over the healthcare system and forcing Americans to depend upon government, even if the quality and quantity of available services declines. Obama and the Democrats could care less about contraception, since upper-middle class NOW members can afford their own (I hate to break this to you, but Sandra Fluke didn't spend $3k on contraception in grad school, and if she did, then it's a wonder that she can still walk), and poor women won't bother, since each child increases their welfare payments and provides more voters to bus to the polls on election day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I think you're probably right. People need to remember that women are a minority too. (Minority, as in group of people with less power, not less of them).
    Oh, please... Women now outnumber men in college, especially graduate programs, and are poised to overtake us in the job market. When you adjust the claims of discrepancies in pay for marital status, single women actually make more than single men, as shown in a number of studies.


    http://www.nber.org/papers/w11240.pdf
    The gender gap is more difficult to analyze because the reasons for the difference are harder to measure. Gender differences in schooling and cognitive skills as measured by the AFQT are quite small and explain little of the pay gap. Instead the gender gap is attributable to choices made by women concerning the amount of time and energy to devote to a career as reflected in years of work experience, utilization of part-time work, and workplace and job characteristics. There is no gender gap in wages among men and women with similar family roles. Comparing the wage gap between women and men ages 35-43 who have never married and never had a child, we find a small observed gap in favor of women, which becomes insignificant after accounting for differences in skills and job and workplace characteristics.
    Or this Dept. of Labor study:

    http://www.consad.com/content/report...l%20Report.pdf
    However, despite these gains the raw wage gap continues to be used in misleading ways to advance public policy agendas without fully explaining the reasons behind the gap. The purpose of this report is to identify the reasons that explain the wage gap in order to more fully inform policymakers and the public.

    The following report prepared by CONSAD Research Corporation presents the results of a detailed statistical analysis of the attributes that contribute to the wage gap and a synopsis of the economic research that has been conducted on the issue. The major findings are:

    There are observable differences in the attributes of men and women that account for most of the wage gap. Statistical analysis that includes those variables has produced results that collectively account for between 65.1 and 76.4 percent of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, and thereby leave an adjusted gender wage gap that is between 4.8 and 7.1 percent. These variables include:

    A greater percentage of women than men tend to work part-time. Part-time work tends to pay less than full-time work.
    A greater percentage of women than men tend to leave the labor force for child birth, child care and elder care. Some of the wage gap is explained by the percentage of women who were not in the labor force during previous years, the age of women, and the number of children in the home.

    Women, especially working mothers, tend to value “family friendly” workplace policies more than men. Some of the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation, particularly, the percentage of women who work in the industry and occupation.
    Research also suggests that differences not incorporated into the model due to data limitations may account for part of the remaining gap. Specifically, CONSAD’s model and much of the literature, including the Bureau of Labor Statistics Highlights of Women’s Earnings, focus on wages rather than total compensation. Research indicates that women may value non-wage benefits more than men do, and as a result prefer to take a greater portion of their compensation in the form of health insurance and other fringe benefits.

    You're stuck in the feminist fantasy of an oppressive patriarchy holding you down, but the facts don't support that. Instead, you support politicians who make broad claims of supporting women, but whose policies diminish your opportunities, just as they diminish the opportunities for men. You're not a minority, and you sure as hell aren't oppressed.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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