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  1. #1 Family Says New Jersey Overreacted To Boy’s Gun Photo 
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    How is obama working out for you?
    http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/upyourstruly/5d569df9-186a-477b-a665-3ea8a8b9b655_zpse9003e54.jpg
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  2. #2  
    CU Royalty JB's Avatar
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    I was reading about this earlier. This is an incredibly unbelievable story. Or, at one time, it would be unbelievable.

    One South Jersey boy got the latter recently for his 11th birthday, and his father, Shawn Moore, posted a picture of him on Facebook, bedecked in camouflage, cradling his new semiautomatic Smith & Wesson M&P15-22.

    But someone saw the picture on Facebook and reported it to New Jersey's Division of Children and Families, and the agency came knocking Friday, with the police.

    "Last night I was out with a buddy of mine. I got a text from my wife that the cops and [DCF] are at the house and they wanna check out my guns and needed me to open my safe," Moore wrote over the weekend...

    "After a while of them threatening to take my kids, get warrants and intimidation they left. Empty handed and seeing nothing," Moore wrote. "People it can happen that fast. Most people wouldn't have stood up to them like I did."
    Not one illegal activity taking place and the cops and child services want access to this family's house and possessions without cause, evidence or a warrant while threatening them with arrest and removal of their children from their home. Holy Shit.

    Full story and the horrid pic at the link
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  3. #3  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Sad thing is, if the kids were pulled, they would have stayed pulled for a good long time. However, if the parents were crackheads or child abusers the state would bend over backwards getting them their kids back. So, moral is, don't have guns or name your kids after Aryan dictators or you'll lose them.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member Apache's Avatar
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    Sounds like a pissy neighbor or anti-gun surfer stuck their nose where it did not belong. The father did the right thing contacting and having the lawyer on the phone when he got home...
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  5. #5  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    I like how the welfare caseworker wouldn't identify herself when the father asked for ID. As far as he knew, she could have been impersonating a state official. He should not have allowed her to leave until she produced her credentials, or he could have asked the officers to arrest her for impersonation.

    The tyrannical BS that is being imposed by the left is rapidly approaching a critical mass. The next couple of years could produce a serious backlash.
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  6. #6  
    Sonnabend
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    Odysseus: Ive been gone a year or more, why arent you a full bird Colonel yet?
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  7. #7  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    I like how the welfare caseworker wouldn't identify herself when the father asked for ID. As far as he knew, she could have been impersonating a state official. He should not have allowed her to leave until she produced her credentials, or he could have asked the officers to arrest her for impersonation.

    The tyrannical BS that is being imposed by the left is rapidly approaching a critical mass. The next couple of years could produce a serious backlash.

    The caseworker should be fired. We are given Employee ID to verify that we are who we say we are.


    This case should never have been referred to CPS, but once it is they do have to investigate, that's how the laws usually work. I will say this-if there are allegations of unsafe weapons in the home, that is something that really should be referred to law enforcement, not to social services. Social workers like me are not qualified to make determinations like that-we are trained in abuse and neglect, not in gun safety. A photo of a boy on facebook posing with a hunting rifle he received as a gift, and posting words to that effect, should not be a reason for a referral to either CPS or the cops, though.


    The only time I should be asking about weapons is when I am assessing a relative's home for placing kids, or a parent's home prior to returning the kids. If they have them, I have to make sure they have a locked cabinet or other safety arrangement. In those cases, it's a liability issue on our part.
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  8. #8  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Odysseus: Ive been gone a year or more, why arent you a full bird Colonel yet?
    My first look will be in a couple more years. Given the promotion numbers of the current boards, the anticipated force reductions and the general state of things, I expect to retire at my current grade, but that's still better than the vast majority of officers do.

    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    The caseworker should be fired. We are given Employee ID to verify that we are who we say we are.


    This case should never have been referred to CPS, but once it is they do have to investigate, that's how the laws usually work. I will say this-if there are allegations of unsafe weapons in the home, that is something that really should be referred to law enforcement, not to social services. Social workers like me are not qualified to make determinations like that-we are trained in abuse and neglect, not in gun safety. A photo of a boy on facebook posing with a hunting rifle he received as a gift, and posting words to that effect, should not be a reason for a referral to either CPS or the cops, though.


    The only time I should be asking about weapons is when I am assessing a relative's home for placing kids, or a parent's home prior to returning the kids. If they have them, I have to make sure they have a locked cabinet or other safety arrangement. In those cases, it's a liability issue on our part.
    How can they fire her if he doesn't know her name?

    You're mistaking this for an inquiry based on child safety. The caseworker in this case couldn't care less if the child was safe. If the caseworker were in the right, she'd have showed her credentials. If she were in the right, when she was told that she couldn't enter without a warrant, would have come back with one. The point of this was to fish for something that the cops could use to confiscate Moore's guns and force him to go through the bowels of the bureaucracy to try to get them back. The goal here was intimidation and harassment of a gun owner. The caseworker obviously knew that the law was on Moore's side, especially since he had his lawyer on speakerphone. Once it became clear that he wasn't going to be intimidated, she backed off and ran away, like any good bully.

    This is how totalitarians work. She wasn't enforcing the law, she was making it up to suit her prejudices.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    My first look will be in a couple more years. Given the promotion numbers of the current boards, the anticipated force reductions and the general state of things, I expect to retire at my current grade, but that's still better than the vast majority of officers do.



    How can they fire her if he doesn't know her name?

    You're mistaking this for an inquiry based on child safety. The caseworker in this case couldn't care less if the child was safe. If the caseworker were in the right, she'd have showed her credentials. If she were in the right, when she was told that she couldn't enter without a warrant, would have come back with one. The point of this was to fish for something that the cops could use to confiscate Moore's guns and force him to go through the bowels of the bureaucracy to try to get them back. The goal here was intimidation and harassment of a gun owner. The caseworker obviously knew that the law was on Moore's side, especially since he had his lawyer on speakerphone. Once it became clear that he wasn't going to be intimidated, she backed off and ran away, like any good bully.

    This is how totalitarians work. She wasn't enforcing the law, she was making it up to suit her prejudices.

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  10. #10  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    My first look will be in a couple more years. Given the promotion numbers of the current boards, the anticipated force reductions and the general state of things, I expect to retire at my current grade, but that's still better than the vast majority of officers do.



    How can they fire her if he doesn't know her name?

    You're mistaking this for an inquiry based on child safety. The caseworker in this case couldn't care less if the child was safe. If the caseworker were in the right, she'd have showed her credentials. If she were in the right, when she was told that she couldn't enter without a warrant, would have come back with one. The point of this was to fish for something that the cops could use to confiscate Moore's guns and force him to go through the bowels of the bureaucracy to try to get them back. The goal here was intimidation and harassment of a gun owner. The caseworker obviously knew that the law was on Moore's side, especially since he had his lawyer on speakerphone. Once it became clear that he wasn't going to be intimidated, she backed off and ran away, like any good bully.

    This is how totalitarians work. She wasn't enforcing the law, she was making it up to suit her prejudices.

    I agree that she was way out of line. So were the police who went out with her, except who knows what she told them to get them to go out there with her. I wonder how long she's been working there and how much training she received.

    She probably wouldn't have gotten far filing for a removal writ and such with family court. There is a lower threshold of proof required in child protection proceedings than in criminal court-it is preponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I've never worked on the CPS side, so my clients generally know me to be their foster care worker when I come to their houses. Still, I am always amazed at how many people do let CPS come into their homes and interview their kids. You do not have to cooperate with them until they get the court to issue an order to that effect. Granted, they will try to see your kid at school if they can't get into your house, but you can keep your kids out of school until you get a lawyer.


    The police can remove kids in an emergency without a court order, but CPS can't.
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