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  1. #31  
    Senior Member LukeEDay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DumbAss Tanker View Post
    I kinda liked JB's post, myself...it summed up pretty well the mental state, worldview, and knowledge of Conservatism of the typical twenty-something self-styled Liberal.

    I agree. Liberals know nothing about economics, history, conservatives, or their own party ...

    I love my God, my country, my flag, and my troops ....
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  2. #32  
    Junior Member Epimetheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    So much for keeping it civil. I'm quite serious. The term "liberal" was co-opted by communists in the 1930s and 40s when the evidence of communism rendered that term toxic. They began referring to themselves as "liberals in a hurry" and eventually dropped the last part. Before that, leftists called themselves Progressives, socialists and even fascists. The first fascist party was founded by Mussolini, who was a socialist who never abandoned the collectivist economics of that movement, but imposed a nationalist aspect which was later adopted by other fascist parties, most infamously the National Socialist Workers' Party of Germany (you may have heard of them). However, my point that you don't know the difference between what you call yourself and the various other movements on the left tells me that you have not reflected much about what you believe, much less why.

    BTW, we had a professor of America Sucks Studies who used to post here under the name Wei Wu Wei. If he's the same one that you're studying under, please give him my regards.
    The post you quoted wasn't written by me.

    I don't attach much significance to what groups did in the past or what the fringe of groups do in the present. It doesn't bother me that the 'Democratic party' voted against the 13th amendment, since the current party would be nearly unrecognizable compared to the party in Lincoln's day. I don't blame Islam for fundamentalists, nor Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. And I don't believe the GOP is waging war on women because of Todd Akin's remarks.

    I don't attach much significance to the terms 'liberal', 'conservative', 'socialist', 'communist', either. There are about as many definitions for these as there are individuals discussing them, and there are about as many ways to execute these ideologies in practice as there are groups practicing them. While they are convenient words to use as a starting point in a conversation, I don't think in-depth knowledge of their history or philosophical discussions about their meanings are a prerequisite to having thoughtful opinions on the issues of the day.

    I always wonder why I see so many arguments about whether the Nazis were more 'liberal' or 'conservative'. To me, it's pretty clear that practically no Americans want to turn our country into 1930s-40s Germany.

    Edit: As a note - responses may be a little slower from here on out. The holiday and work will limit my time to check this thread. Happy Easter, everyone

    Edit 2: Not sure what the double-posting rules are here, so I'll add something to this post.
    Quote Originally Posted by DumbAss Tanker View Post
    I kinda liked JB's post, myself...it summed up pretty well the mental state, worldview, and knowledge of Conservatism of the typical twenty-something self-styled Liberal.

    Is this genuinely how you view me? Because I really don't think I'm anything special in terms of knowing more about these things than friends of mine with similar views. And I'm sure a number of them could do a better job than me of answering these questions (particularly Odysseus')
    Last edited by Epimetheus; 03-30-2013 at 07:28 PM.
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  3. #33  
    Moderator txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Interesting. You call yourself a liberal, but are unable to define the term, especially in the context of other ideologies of the left. Doesn't it bother you that you may be carrying water for radical ideologies with a history of horrific atrocities on their records?
    IMO it's a purposeful dodge. Typical of Liberalism they work hard to hide their true beliefs and worldview so they can't be pinned down or held responsible for any aspect of what they believe in.

    Much the same way Obama is in constant campaign mode to avoid any appearance of leadership or having his name associated with any piece of legislation or negotiation.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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  4. #34  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    IMO it's a purposeful dodge. Typical of Liberalism they work hard to hide their true beliefs and worldview so they can't be pinned down or held responsible for any aspect of what they believe in.

    Much the same way Obama is in constant campaign mode to avoid any appearance of leadership or having his name associated with any piece of legislation or negotiation.
    debating with liberals is like nailing Jello to the wall, they will never own anything.
    How is obama working out for you?
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  5. #35  
    Senior Member DumbAss Tanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epimetheus View Post
    Is this genuinely how you view me? Because I really don't think I'm anything special in terms of knowing more about these things than friends of mine with similar views. And I'm sure a number of them could do a better job than me of answering these questions (particularly Odysseus')
    You in particular? No, you haven't actually said much of anything about what you believe or how you analyze things, really. My comments are more related to the braindead zombies in the described demographic groups that I encounter every day. You can wear the shoe if it fits, of course; your choice.
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  6. #36  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epimetheus View Post
    The post you quoted wasn't written by me.

    I don't attach much significance to what groups did in the past or what the fringe of groups do in the present. It doesn't bother me that the 'Democratic party' voted against the 13th amendment, since the current party would be nearly unrecognizable compared to the party in Lincoln's day. I don't blame Islam for fundamentalists, nor Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. And I don't believe the GOP is waging war on women because of Todd Akin's remarks.

    I don't attach much significance to the terms 'liberal', 'conservative', 'socialist', 'communist', either. There are about as many definitions for these as there are individuals discussing them, and there are about as many ways to execute these ideologies in practice as there are groups practicing them. While they are convenient words to use as a starting point in a conversation, I don't think in-depth knowledge of their history or philosophical discussions about their meanings are a prerequisite to having thoughtful opinions on the issues of the day.

    I always wonder why I see so many arguments about whether the Nazis were more 'liberal' or 'conservative'. To me, it's pretty clear that practically no Americans want to turn our country into 1930s-40s Germany.

    Edit: As a note - responses may be a little slower from here on out. The holiday and work will limit my time to check this thread. Happy Easter, everyone

    Edit 2: Not sure what the double-posting rules are here, so I'll add something to this post.

    Is this genuinely how you view me? Because I really don't think I'm anything special in terms of knowing more about these things than friends of mine with similar views. And I'm sure a number of them could do a better job than me of answering these questions (particularly Odysseus')
    Wow, um, ok. Please allow me to show you answering these questions you told us to ask you:


    Now, you can tap dance around liberalism all you want but the truth is, liberal and progressive policies and ideology are responsible for more death and destruction than any other ideology including the Crusades. And unlike Feudal Christianity, liberalism hasn't outgrown this behavior. It's still alive and well in North Korea, China, Cuba as well as other leftist dictatorships around the world. Liberals like to blame this on conservatives but the truth is, it's your ideology, not ours, that will destroy this country. But thankfully for you, the left's little propaganda machine known as the MSM, the people will have a hard time getting the truth but the truth is out there no matter how people like your ilk try to give your history to conservatives.
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  7. #37  
    Moderator txradioguy's Avatar
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    I don't attach much significance to the terms 'liberal', 'conservative', 'socialist', 'communist', either.
    Of course you don't. Liberals do everything they can to avoid admitting what they are and what they support in a silly effort to be able to take any side of an issue at any time so as to always have the politically correct response.

    Liberals also tend not to attach much significance to terms like "good and evil"..."right and wrong"..."guilty or innocent" "legal or illegal" et. al.

    Their entire world view is millions of shades of gray. Never any absolutes.


    There are about as many definitions for these as there are individuals discussing them, and there are about as many ways to execute these ideologies in practice as there are groups practicing them.
    Not in the real world. That's a another Liberal ploy they use so as to be able to assign and pigeon hold every little special interest or .001% of the population into some kind of victim or special need status.


    While they are convenient words to use as a starting point in a conversation, I don't think in-depth knowledge of their history or philosophical discussions about their meanings are a prerequisite to having thoughtful opinions on the issues of the day.
    Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    Liberals seem to like to treat every day as if it's day one of history in order to shape the world as they see it when they wake up. Because to use historical references and historical events would give people the avenue to judge what Liberalism is trying to to versus what this country has historically stood for.

    You don't think they're important because a study of history would reveal what an abject failure socialism/progressissiveism/socialism really is.


    So let me ask you again...why do you defend and ascribe to a political philosophy that has failed every time it's been tried?
    Last edited by txradioguy; 03-31-2013 at 05:55 AM.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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  8. #38  
    Junior Member Epimetheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    So let me ask you again...why do you defend and ascribe to a political philosophy that has failed every time it's been tried?
    This and many of the other statements you and others are making (all libs are relativists, all libs avoid history, etc) are incredibly sweeping generalizations - and I don't know what evidence there is to back them up.

    You reject my claim that there are different interpretations and executions of political philosophies, and yet list 'Russia...China...North Korea...the European Union....specifically Spain...Greece Italy and Cyprus' as examples of liberal failures. Do you really believe these countries are run exactly the same way with the same principles?

    You'll have to forgive my frustration showing through a bit here, but I really don't see how we can get a productive discussion along these lines ("liberalism sucks!" "no it doesn't" "yes it does", etc).

    But to play along, here is a quick "No it doesn't". German political parties are more liberal than their American counterparts, and Germany seems to be doing fine. Norway, Sweden, and Finland are closer to socialism than I would like, but they seem to be doing well by most metrics too.

    Edit: Another point I forgot to make. Even if I were to eventually concede that liberalism is responsible for the poor conditions in N. Korea, Cuba, etc (at the moment I'm quite unconvinced of this), why would this impact my views on Social Security, Gay Marriage, the Healthcare system, and so on? I can't see why it would, and therefore I would continue to vote for candidates that share as many of my views as possible. This is the primary reason I am not particularly interested in this line of discussion.
    Last edited by Epimetheus; 03-31-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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  9. #39  
    CU Royalty JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    So much for keeping it civil.
    I wasn't addressing our new lib friend directly, just the liberal mindset of why they are the way they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ody
    BTW, we had a professor of America Sucks Studies who used to post here under the name Wei Wu Wei. If he's the same one that you're studying under, please give him my regards.
    Are you talking to me or indirectly referencing no one in particular as I was?
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  10. #40  
    Moderator txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epimetheus View Post
    This and many of the other statements you and others are making (all libs are relativists, all libs avoid history, etc) are incredibly sweeping generalizations - and I don't know what evidence there is to back them up.
    I gave you five examples and you ignored them.

    And now you act like this is a new question to you.

    Typical.

    You reject my claim that there are different interpretations and executions of political philosophies, and yet list 'Russia...China...North Korea...the European Union....specifically Spain...Greece Italy and Cyprus' as examples of liberal failures. Do you really believe these countries are run exactly the same way with the same principles?
    Yes they were....and are.

    You'll have to forgive my frustration showing through a bit here, but I really don't see how we can get a productive discussion along these lines ("liberalism sucks!" "no it doesn't" "yes it does", etc).
    Your words not mine.

    I asked a legitimate question. Showed where you were wrong in your broad generalities and purposeful avoidance of the hard questions.



    But to play along, here is a quick "No it doesn't". German political parties are more liberal than their American counterparts, and Germany seems to be doing fine.
    Except that Germany has the highest unemployment rate in the post war era. The economy has been shrinking steadily for the last three years. Major industries are primarily owned by the government. And because of EU and German regulations banking and small business are severely choked. Saying they are "doing fine" is a relative term.

    It's akin to bragging about coming in first in a race where you are the only one participating.

    European socialism and all of the nanny state oversight that is rampant here in the EU is what Obama is trying to turn the US into. Never mind the fact that the warning signs of it's failure are all over the place.


    Norway, Sweden, and Finland are closer to socialism than I would like, but they seem to be doing well by most metrics too.
    And in response to these typical retorts from a Liberal I would say 1) what is the population of the countries you listed and 2) what are the GDP's? It's an apples and oranges comparison that Liberals always use to try and justify why Socialism is the answer...when it's actually the exact opposite.

    Edit: Another point I forgot to make. Even if I were to eventually concede that liberalism is responsible for the poor conditions in N. Korea, Cuba, etc (at the moment I'm quite unconvinced of this), why would this impact my views on Social Security, Gay Marriage, the Healthcare system, and so on? I can't see why it would, and therefore I would continue to vote for candidates that share as many of my views as possible.
    Because they are all tied together. Though you'll never admit it. ALl of them insist on top down management over everyones daily lives.

    All of them promise their people a perfect utopia where everyone is equal...and fail miserably on delivering that promise.

    And they all strive to break down the societal and historical norms that are the basis for this country.

    What you're voting for is the destruction of this country.


    This is the primary reason I am not particularly interested in this line of discussion.
    No you're not interested init because it deals in factual evidence and things that can disprove your Utopian dream.

    And facts are an anathema to the hopey changey feelings and emotions that Liberalism is based in.

    The discussion you're avoiding forces you to take a stand and actually defend what you claim to believe in.

    And you can't do it. Not outside of the vacuum of Liberal group think.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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