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  1. #11  
    Drive-by Poster ABC in Georgia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Really? Is this appropriate behavior of a board moderator? And I never said I was better, only that by "parading" the picture of this guy around the internet is no different than when these scumbags dragged Christopher Stevens' body through the streets of Benghazi. But if you want to act like a 6 year old about it, do you.
    NJ ...

    We are not anything like those scumbags, we are simply expressing our feelings in "words" after such an undeserved travesty (not the word I want, darn it!) perpetuated upon the innocent citizens of Boston.
    Last edited by ABC in Georgia; 04-19-2013 at 11:45 PM.
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  2. #12  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Really? Is this appropriate behavior of a board moderator? And I never said I was better, only that by "parading" the picture of this guy around the internet is no different than when these scumbags dragged Christopher Stevens' body through the streets of Benghazi. But if you want to act like a 6 year old about it, do you.
    You would be correct if there was some sort of moral equivalence between an ambassador of the United States Who was doing nothing wrong just doing his job and a terrorist who just blew a crowd of innocent people to pieces including taking the life of a little boy who never did anything to anyone to deserve this.
    I don't hold these as equal, one is a son of Satan who does evil, the ambassador deserves better than to be displayed as some sort of equal.
    In my mind these men are different and until this moment I would never have let them occupy my thoughts at the same time.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  3. #13  
    Drive-by Poster ABC in Georgia's Avatar
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    Oh Mercy! "Perpetuate" yet? Holy Cow!

    Damn that last glass of wine, I felt like having tonight while watching the folks in Boston celebrate.

    "In vino veritas" perhaps ... but it sure doesn't help to bring to mind the words I wanted to post!

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  4. #14  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    There was more than one reason executions were public up until modern times.
    When the criminal died the picture of his less than dignified demise combined itself with the memory of him.
    Why have him remembered as some brave freedom fighter that died for an opposing view, I would rather remember this killer of innocents in all of his bloody shame.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  5. #15  
    Drive-by Poster ABC in Georgia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    There was more than one reason executions were public up until modern times.
    When the criminal died the picture of his less than dignified demise combined itself with the memory of him.
    Why have him remembered as some brave freedom fighter that died for an opposing view, I would rather remember this killer of innocents in all of his bloody shame.
    I agree Rock ... this IS the way to remember him!

    Much like I can't to this day get the sight of my mom lying *still* in her coffin out of my mind, and she died back in 1989. I will never forget it. It still hurts to remember.

    Some memories are justified and some are not.
    Last edited by ABC in Georgia; 04-20-2013 at 12:08 PM.
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  6. #16  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    I'm glad the photo got released. It's a good message. THIS is what will happen to you when you attack Americans.

    Still think they should have released Osama's pic.



    As for the gore, it doesn't bother me, after working in trauma centers for the last 20+ years, I've seen it all.
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  7. #17  
    Drive-by Poster ABC in Georgia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post

    Still think they should have released Osama's pic.
    As do I Hawk ...

    But then again, I am one of the ones that believe we got him back in Tora Bora, or wherever it was.

    If not, at least I think he died from kidney failure long ago.

    (Brunch for Mr. ABC calling ... gotta go!)
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  8. #18  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    I just like to say that when we do this, it makes up no better than them when they drag our dead through the streets. Let's not stoop to this level.

    I would, however, like to add that I love the irony of bringing a muslim terrorist to a Jewish hospital.
    We didn't desecrate the body by dragging it through the streets, we provided the full spectrum of medical support in order to save his life. The publication of the post-mortem photo isn't a sign of disrespect, but simply documentation of the fact. Burying him in a pigskin shroud would be desecration, but a perfectly appropriate one. We should do that for all Islamic terrorists. I agree on the irony, though. Has anyone ever heard of Muslim hospitals outside of Muslim countries?

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  9. #19  
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    I've been reading this thread but have been hesitant to post on it because my own feelings are so mixed.

    On one hand, publishing a photo of the corpse, grisly or not, is not the same thing as dragging the body through the streets. There is a dynamism about the physical act of attaching the body to a vehicle and driving it through town, scraping and bumping the corpse as you go, to the accompaniment of a cheering crowd. Certainly, a still photo of injuries sustained while resisting arrest and, as Ody pointed out, after receiving decent medical treatment at a good hospital, does not in any way equate to dragging the body through town.

    I think NJCardFan was--and forgive me, NJ, if I'm ascribing the wrong motives to you here--referring to the voyeuristic vengeance aspect of both cases. Whether a body is being dragged through a street or whether a still image of its grisly condition is being distributed through some media or other, what is being satisfied in the viewer is a sense of vengeance. The fear, rage and helplessness that the corpse inspired when he was a live person finds an outlet in a public display of that corpse's desecration. I was raised to believe that this particular human impulse reduces us spiritually, and in that sense I agree with NJCardFan that the impulse to view the photo may carry the same moral weight as the impulse to view that corpse's desecration in any other way.

    As to the public executions of the past, there has always been an ambivalence about watching such executions. While public hangings, drownings, beheadings, etc. satisfied both the need of the powerful to keep the rabble in line and the need of the rabble to satisfy its own blood lust, there was also a great repulsion against the acts of killing and display which often projected themselves onto the person of the executioner.

    The Executioner's Song

    ...Eventually the condemned man appears, and is led in a procession to the site of execution. He is pleading for his sins to be forgiven, but also for the mercy of being beheaded by the sword, instead of the prescribed end for counterfeiters: death by fire. Authorities refuse. His closest companion at the end is the German city's master executioner, an elderly man who seats the prisoner in a chair and builds the fire.

    Writes Harrington: "One outcast departs this life; another remains behind, sweeping up his victim's charred bones and embers." The outcast remaining is Frantz Schmidt, the enigmatic center of Harrington's The Faithful Executioner: Life and Death, Honor and Shame in the Turbulent Sixteenth Century, just out from Farrar, Straus and Giroux.

    Whether despised or pitied, executioners have rarely been considered as "genuine individuals," writes the author, a professor at Vanderbilt University...

    ...Schmidt's family lived originally in Hof, a remote town in the "Bavarian Siberia," writes Harrington. When an alleged assassination plot against the margrave, the local authority, was uncovered and three gunsmiths arrested, the margrave opted for his right to choose a bystander to execute the men. Frantz's father, Heinrich, was selected and threatened with death if he refused. Dishonored after he complied, Heinrich, once a respectable woodsman and fowler, became an executioner, shunned by society, and even forbidden in many towns to enter churches. With their children's prospects limited also by the stigma, many executioner fathers passed the trade, well paid at least, to a son...
    Interestingly, we react the same way now. Those whose business is killing our fellow citizens--even when legally sanctioned and required--are blamed through stigma or public outrage. Even those tangentially involved in the death can be blamed. The hospital that released the photo, for example, is taking the brunt of the public outrage, even though The Smoking Gun website has posted the photo and millions of internet users are viewing, uploading, and emailing it to their friends. So, it becomes the hospital's fault that many of us can't help but be vengeful voyeurs.

    I think the moral weight of looking at the photo only lifts when we can honestly look at the damaged corpse and can honestly say to ourselves, "May God have mercy on his soul," without a trace of hypocrisy.
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  10. #20  
    Sin City Moderator RobJohnson's Avatar
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    I'm sure we all know that the hospital does not allow photos like this to be released. Policy was broken. It happens.

    Now that it has been released it will do one thing. It will keep the nut jobs from saying "they got the wrong guy" or what ever the conspiracy of the day might end up being.


    It should also send a strong message to any young converts to the Islamic terrorist movement that their actions will have consequences if they try to pull any shit here on our soil.
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