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  1. #21  
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    How many girls did you guys know in elementary school or middle school that wanted to be a boy? My fiancee tells me how in elementary school she kept saying she was a boy, now did her parents let her take drugs to push puberty back and eventually take testosterone? NO! She was told she was a girl and to act like one and now she's extremely feminine much to her feminist professors.

    By the way, I don't care if the parents are gay or not, encouraging a child to continue believing they are a different sex only to make them sterile via genital-mutilation is child abuse.

    Also, it's not uncommon for political lesbians, you know them as "radfems, feminazi's" etc. to talk openly about hating men, this would very easily lead to a boy hating himself because he has a penis and the political lesbians have penis envy, because they want to be men or at least have the perceived "patriarchal power".

    I think I linked to the article nova is talking about where the Canadian couple is raising their child "gender-neutral" and I was just as sickened by that as well, so please move along.
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    It's a function of a lot of things. The child has a number of problems, including a speech impediment (the Daily Mail's article went into much more detail on the whole situation). From the article:

    The mothers say that one of the first things Thomas told them when he learned sign language aged three - because of a speech impediment - was, 'I am a girl'.
    At age seven, after threatening genital mutilation on himself, psychiatrists diagnosed Thomas with gender identity disorder. By the age of eight, he began transitioning.
    This summer, he started taking hormone-blocking drugs, which will stop him from experiencing puberty.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2T55TJUqA
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    Now, it may be that Thomas identifies as a girl because the only role models that he has are two women, which would make the sexes of the parents an issue, but at the very least, Thomas has issues that go beyond gender identity disorder. A child who threatens to mutilate himself is already deeply disturbed, and I don't think that indulging him is the best form of therapy.
    When transexualism was Christine Jorgensen and then Renee Richards I didn't really give a lot of thought to transexualism. Then in college, when I met some people who identified as transexual and declared an intention to have a sex change, I didn't really question it. It appeared to seem plausible, ie that "gender" was in the brain and sex was in the DNA and that there could be a mismatch. There was the problem of the intersexed persons, which shows that nature isn't really always sure which sex you are or should be. Yes they are rare, but they do show an intersection where we normally think of there being a barrier.

    As time went on, and I knew drag queens who claimed to be transexual, but then swore off drag as if it were an addiction I started to question the construct. After giving it some considerable thought, I decided that transexualism didn't actually exist. My theory was that gay children see a conflict between what they are and what they are expected to be and therefore conclude that they must be something else. No, it's not babble. Some gay male children see a heterosexual father or other male models and have an innate sense of being different from that. As he gets older and realizes that these heterosexual models are oriented towards females, and that he is not, his rudimentary logic system concludes that he must be a female. Based on this, I predicted that as homosexuality is accepted and parents become in tune to their gay children at earlier ages, we would expect transexualism to disappear. Other gay males don't seem to question their orientation and just row with the flow.

    But now transexuals are saying that they knew at a very young age that they were transgender. Apparently there are some very young people who identify and know not only what is going on but what its name is. Perhaps not the six or eight year old, but think about when you were eleven. When I was eleven I was watching Nicholas von Hoffman, David Suskind, and William F Buckley religiously. I understood what they were talking about. I had political opinions (including my disgust that the American military wasn't being allowed to obliterate North Vietnam). Eleven years old is not simpleminded Daddy can I have some cotton candy. Eleven years old is one year younger than when a male youth would be taken from his home and apprenticed.

    So I don't know. I'm getting older and the older I get the less I know for certain I guess. I do know that I strongly disapprove of giving drugs to children, especially healthy children. Now Thomas/Tammy's parents and doctors say that he is not a healthy child. One would have to agree that healthy children do not consistently claim to be the other sex despite what we would assume is evidence to the contrary. Healthy children certainly don't threaten to mutilate themselves.

    Thomas' parents seem to be doing what they think is best for the child despite not having a cheering section for it. We disagree.

    I'm not sure that it's any more harmful than some of the dreadful stuff that fundamentalist Christian parents do/have done to gay children.
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    When transexualism was Christine Jorgensen and then Renee Richards I didn't really give a lot of thought to transexualism. Then in college, when I met some people who identified as transexual and declared an intention to have a sex change, I didn't really question it. It appeared to seem plausible, ie that "gender" was in the brain and sex was in the DNA and that there could be a mismatch. There was the problem of the intersexed persons, which shows that nature isn't really always sure which sex you are or should be. Yes they are rare, but they do show an intersection where we normally think of there being a barrier.

    As time went on, and I knew drag queens who claimed to be transexual, but then swore off drag as if it were an addiction I started to question the construct. After giving it some considerable thought, I decided that transexualism didn't actually exist. My theory was that gay children see a conflict between what they are and what they are expected to be and therefore conclude that they must be something else. No, it's not babble. Some gay male children see a heterosexual father or other male models and have an innate sense of being different from that. As he gets older and realizes that these heterosexual models are oriented towards females, and that he is not, his rudimentary logic system concludes that he must be a female. Based on this, I predicted that as homosexuality is accepted and parents become in tune to their gay children at earlier ages, we would expect transexualism to disappear. Other gay males don't seem to question their orientation and just row with the flow.

    But now transexuals are saying that they knew at a very young age that they were transgender. Apparently there are some very young people who identify and know not only what is going on but what its name is. Perhaps not the six or eight year old, but think about when you were eleven. When I was eleven I was watching Nicholas von Hoffman, David Suskind, and William F Buckley religiously. I understood what they were talking about. I had political opinions (including my disgust that the American military wasn't being allowed to obliterate North Vietnam). Eleven years old is not simpleminded Daddy can I have some cotton candy. Eleven years old is one year younger than when a male youth would be taken from his home and apprenticed.

    So I don't know. I'm getting older and the older I get the less I know for certain I guess. I do know that I strongly disapprove of giving drugs to children, especially healthy children. Now Thomas/Tammy's parents and doctors say that he is not a healthy child. One would have to agree that healthy children do not consistently claim to be the other sex despite what we would assume is evidence to the contrary. Healthy children certainly don't threaten to mutilate themselves.

    Thomas' parents seem to be doing what they think is best for the child despite not having a cheering section for it. We disagree.

    I'm not sure that it's any more harmful than some of the dreadful stuff that fundamentalist Christian parents do/have done to gay children.
    Once again we have Novaheart defending perversion and trying to convince the rest of us that we are the ones in the wrong.

    And of course all of his thread jacking anecdotes are from people who are adults and make this decision on their own with a fully formed adult mind.

    Umm just some advice Nova...if you're the only one who doesn't see something wrong with this...then maybe it's not the rest of us who needs to seriously rethink their position on the subject.

    Oh and Nova...no one is born gay.
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  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Another long winded post ignoring the OP completely
    Nice dance there Ginger. Now can you comment about article in the OP and not try to derail the thread.
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  5. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    if you're the only one who doesn't see something wrong with this...then maybe it's not the rest of us who needs to seriously rethink their position on the subject.
    Think about that.
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zathras View Post
    Nice dance there Ginger. Now can you comment about article in the OP and not try to derail the thread.
    I did comment on it. It's not my problem if you can't read. If you didn't want to follow my discussion with Ody, then don't.
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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wibbins View Post
    Also, it's not uncommon for political lesbians, you know them as "radfems, feminazi's" etc. to talk openly about hating men, this would very easily lead to a boy hating himself because he has a penis and the political lesbians have penis envy, because they want to be men or at least have the perceived "patriarchal power".
    Wibbins, I used to know one or two "political lesbians" back in the day, and at least a few of them struck me as straight women who chose a female lover because they were angry with men. The truly gay lesbians did not all hate men, and those I knew that did were often wanting the kinds of stereotyped "privileges" that men had, like a servile woman who jumped when they said jump.

    The issue of this little boy might or might not be related to "man hating" around the house. If the child is the biological child of one of the women involved--and if homosexuality is an inherited trait--then the child might actually be gay and identifying as female.

    But it's hard to tell what's really going on when kids are little. I knew a kid who was very theatrical, enjoyed make-up and all that. He had two brothers who used to pound the crap out of him. He did end up gay, but the self-hatred (he started cutting in high school) clearly came from his brothers, his school (where the kids did bully him), and his own straight parents, who, while "open-minded" liberals, never actually wanted to accept his sexuality.

    I also knew a girl who was fond of so-called "boys' toys", was into dinosaurs, cars, and science. She was a very attractive girl and ended up straight--never even had a qualm of doubt. But her hetero parents were much less disturbed by her choices as a child. They let her be. Of course, she came from a family of so-called "tom-boys" who all fell in love with men and had children.

    You just can't tell when they are little.

    This is why this particular story in the OP worries me. Sex reassignment--therapy, hormones, and eventual surgery--is too much to throw at a kid who is still very young. The child may not actually be trans--whatever that would entail. If they think their kids have problems now, what is going to happen when he's 21, a biological girl, and it turns out that he was really just a gay man all along? Can you think of the therapy bills alone?

    There are males who are still angry at their parents for circumcising them as babies. Can you imagine a full sex change?

    The parents need to leave this be until the kid at least gets through puberty and we see which way the hormones settle.
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Sex reassignment--therapy, hormones, and eventual surgery--is too much to throw at a kid who is still very young.
    I think it's too much for anyone at any age, especially when we consider the people who got surgical sex changes and then reversed down the road. The sex change surgery is primitive and ineffective enough on its own, the "reversal" generates a person who is physically incapable of functioning as male or female.

    The fact that there are people who have had reversals should cause medicine to look in a different direction for the treatment of gender dysphoria. Not to be cruel, but in the realm of perceptual disorders people have been known to believe themselves to be not only of a different sex, but a different species. Obviously, we wouldn't recommend pharmaceutical and surgical therapies for a person who imagines that she is a unicorn or a Klingon.

    I have maintained for some time now that we should simply allow transgendered people to be who they are. If a man wants to dress as a woman or (more commonly actually) a woman dress as a man- who cares? If they want to use the mens room or the ladies room - who cares? What is the problem with some people that they get all worked up over this? Is it so essential to them that black be labeled black and white be label white that in the absence of that the world is in chaos and peril of moral decline?

    Morality is about hurting people, other people. Not hurting them is moral, hurting them is immoral. It's pretty simple. If some woman (or girl) wants to call herself Ralph and wear overalls it's none of our business. If some man (or boy) wants to call himself Champagne and wear evening gowns to church, it's none of our business. Live and fucking let live. Otherwise, we can start taking a good look at who you are and what you do... and few people want that.
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    You have no information to form your opinion other than the article. The article states quite clearly that this child's parents exercised caution and then made a difficult decision to support this child's choice. Now we disagree with that decision, but that doesn't mean that his gay parents are forcing anything on him, and why would the choose him alone and not their other children?

    As for his heterosexual birth parents, you don't know that either. For all you know his mother was a lesbian who was raped. It's not relevant.

    At this point they are delaying puberty and while I don't approve, it's a therapy employed for a medical condition.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=90273278
    What 8 year old knows what they want sexually? Oh, I forgot, there's no difference between children and adults in your warped mind. This proves that when it comes to homosexuality, you will try to normalize it with every fiber of your being. Next you're going to say that 8 year old girls should be allowed to make their own sexual decisions. You are about as fucked in the head as anyone is going to get.
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  10. #30  
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    Wow! This is so whacked on so many levels. Are any one of you human? Little boys grow into big boys, little girls grow into big girls. This has actually happened through a lot of years. There really does not need studies to see if this is normal! If same sex whack jobs want to marry, lets leave children, the ones that don't have a say in what their deviant same sex parents say, out of the discussion. They should not be allowed to be parents. The reason is, they are deviants or might I say, not normal. If the same kid these nut jobs want to have surgically altered lived with normal parents, this would not be a problem.

    I hate liberals and their grand scheme to change society, I am going to post 25 reasons to hate liberals!!!

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