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  1. #21  
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    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/14...ife-in-prison/

    Life without parole times two. Doesn't say whether they're consecutive or concurrent, not that it really matters.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  2. #22  
    SEAduced SuperMod Hawkgirl's Avatar
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    He butchers babies but gets life...what a wonderful, fair justice system we have....
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  3. #23  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    He butchers babies but gets life...what a wonderful, fair justice system we have....
    Pro-choicers are only opposed to taking life when it is guilty of a heinous crime. The innocent hold no interest for them.
    Last edited by Odysseus; 05-15-2013 at 09:56 AM.
    --Odysseus
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  4. #24  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkgirl View Post
    He butchers babies but gets life...what a wonderful, fair justice system we have....
    The man is 72 years old and putting him to death would be a relief for him, I would put him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life and let him suffer. I know they won't torture him but I would think up many devious activities for him to do.
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Pro-choicers are only opposed to taking life when it is guilty of a heinous crime. The innocent hold no interest for them.
    Didn't the jury that convicted him have to make this decision? I do think it's messed up that he gets life, but Arias is probably going to get death. I know. Two different juries and cases. It just reminds me of when Paul Hill killed the abortion doctor years ago. He got the death penalty while Susan Smith, who killed her two toddlers by driving them into a lake only got 15 to thirty years. I don't think this is just a matter of "pro-choice." People clearly don't see children as much of citizens as they do adults. People often say I'm wrong about that, but I can't shake that feeling. I've always thought that.

    For the first and and probably only time, I'm going to say that Bailey is right.


    As for the rest that you told me earlier, I acknowledge most of that. It is true that PP was more concerned about the safety of the woman than for the lives of babies. I think a lot of pro-choice activists believe they're the best ones to regulate themselves. It never occurs to them that abortion clinics are businesses just like anybody else and therefore might keep some things out of the reports. I probably didn't make myself very clear earlier. Sorry. Oh heck, I'm probably still not making myself clear.

    On another note, I was reading yesterday that the hospitals that admitted women over the years kept their mouth shut. What was their excuse?
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  6. #26  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Didn't the jury that convicted him have to make this decision? I do think it's messed up that he gets life, but Arias is probably going to get death. I know. Two different juries and cases. It just reminds me of when Paul Hill killed the abortion doctor years ago. He got the death penalty while Susan Smith, who killed her two toddlers by driving them into a lake only got 15 to thirty years. I don't think this is just a matter of "pro-choice." People clearly don't see children as much of citizens as they do adults. People often say I'm wrong about that, but I can't shake that feeling. I've always thought that.

    For the first and and probably only time, I'm going to say that Bailey is right.
    It's not just that those people don't see children as citizens, it's that many people don't care. Susan Smith infuriated me, because I when I first heard what she had done, I imagined her babies sitting in their car seats, as the car rolled into the water, frantically trying to breath and wondering why mommy was just standing there. That's the stuff of horror movies, watching someone you love and who you thought loved you indifferently letting you die. She deserved the death penalty, and the fact that she didn't get it saddened me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    As for the rest that you told me earlier, I acknowledge most of that. It is true that PP was more concerned about the safety of the woman than for the lives of babies. I think a lot of pro-choice activists believe they're the best ones to regulate themselves. It never occurs to them that abortion clinics are businesses just like anybody else and therefore might keep some things out of the reports. I probably didn't make myself very clear earlier. Sorry. Oh heck, I'm probably still not making myself clear.
    Planned Parenthood doesn't care about babies at all. They see them as an inconvenience. If they cared about babies, they'd counsel for adoption instead of abortion, and they wouldn't oppose informed consent rules. According to their own annual report, they did 2300 adoption referrals and 333, 954 abortions, or roughly one adoption for every 145 abortions. They don't make any money off of adoptions. They make roughly $500 per abortion, or so they admit.

    They don't care much about the safety of the women, either, as demonstrated by their silence in the face of horrific conditions in Gosnell's clinic. If they were concerned about appearances, they'd have lobbied to have his abattoir shut down quietly. They clearly knew about it, because other clinics as far away as Virginia would refer patients to the Women’s Medical Society because Gosnell had a "reputation for performing abortions regardless of gestational age." They knew what he was doing. They just didn't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    On another note, I was reading yesterday that the hospitals that admitted women over the years kept their mouth shut. What was their excuse?
    Pro-choice solidarity. What else?

    Some doctors did complain, but the state did nothing. The Grand Jury report was damning.

    "[T]here were complaints about Gosnell, repeatedly. Several different attorneys, representing women injured by Gosnell, contacted the department. A doctor from Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia hand-delivered a complaint, advising the department that numerous patients he had referred for abortions came back from Gosnell with the same venereal disease. The medical examiner of Delaware County informed the department that Gosnell had performed an illegal abortion on a 14-year-old girl carrying a 30-week-old baby. And the department received official notice that a woman named Karnamaya Mongar had died at Gosnell’s hands.

    Yet not one of these alarm bells – not even Mrs. Mongar’s death – prompted the department to look at Gosnell or the Women’s Medical Society.
    Only after the raid occurred, and the story hit the press, did the department choose to act."

    And it wasn't just the Department of Health. Again, from the report:

    "But even this total abdication by the Department of Health might not have been fatal. Another agency with authority in the health field, the Pennsylvania Department of State, could have stopped Gosnell single-handedly. While the Department of Health regulates facilities, the Department of State, through its Board of Medicine, licenses and oversees individual physicians. Like their colleagues at Health, however, Department of State officials were repeatedly confronted with evidence about Gosnell, and repeatedly chose to do nothing.

    Indeed, in many ways State had more damning information than anyone else. Almost a decade ago, a former employee of Gosnell presented the Board of Medicine with a complaint that laid out the whole scope of his operation: the unclean, unsterile conditions; the unlicensed workers; the unsupervised sedation; the underage abortion patients; even the over-prescribing of pain pills with high resale value on the street. The department assigned an investigator, whose investigation consisted primarily of an offsite interview with Gosnell. The investigator never inspected the facility, questioned other employees, or reviewed any records. Department attorneys chose to accept this incomplete investigation, and dismissed the complaint as unconfirmed."
    Everybody knew about this, at least among the abortion providing community in Pennsylvania and the surrounding states. It was a highly profitable enterprise, an abortion cash cow. The people who claim to care about protecting women, the Progressive, pro-choice, feminist-certified government attorneys and bureaucrats at the Pennsylvania Department of Health and Department of State, the employees of clinics in other states, Planned Parenthood, they all knew. They swept it all out with the trash, because they just didn't give a damn. The people who told you that there was a Republican war on women had no problem with Gosnell until he was so blatantly exposed that they could no longer hide him, and then they pretended to attack. The media, which was complicit in the lie, ignored the story until they were shamed into covering it. The only pro-choicer who cared about the victims here is, well... you.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  7. #27  
    Senior Member LukeEDay's Avatar
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    Even if he would have gotten the death penalty, he would die in prison before it is carried out. Unless he is lucky enough to live to 100 because that would be his age at the time he is executed. People like him are the reason they should have a 30 day clause to carry the sentence out.
    Last edited by LukeEDay; 05-16-2013 at 10:25 AM.

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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Didn't the jury that convicted him have to make this decision?
    Actually, no. He struck a sentencing deal with the prosecution to avoid the death penalty before the decision went to the jury.

    The jury would have had to make the decision, but the sentencing deal upended that.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    It's not just that those people don't see children as citizens, it's that many people don't care. Susan Smith infuriated me, because I when I first heard what she had done, I imagined her babies sitting in their car seats, as the car rolled into the water, frantically trying to breath and wondering why mommy was just standing there. That's the stuff of horror movies, watching someone you love and who you thought loved you indifferently letting you die. She deserved the death penalty, and the fact that she didn't get it saddened me.



    Planned Parenthood doesn't care about babies at all. They see them as an inconvenience. If they cared about babies, they'd counsel for adoption instead of abortion, and they wouldn't oppose informed consent rules. According to their own annual report, they did 2300 adoption referrals and 333, 954 abortions, or roughly one adoption for every 145 abortions. They don't make any money off of adoptions. They make roughly $500 per abortion, or so they admit.

    They don't care much about the safety of the women, either, as demonstrated by their silence in the face of horrific conditions in Gosnell's clinic. If they were concerned about appearances, they'd have lobbied to have his abattoir shut down quietly. They clearly knew about it, because other clinics as far away as Virginia would refer patients to the Women’s Medical Society because Gosnell had a "reputation for performing abortions regardless of gestational age." They knew what he was doing. They just didn't care.



    Pro-choice solidarity. What else?

    Some doctors did complain, but the state did nothing. The Grand Jury report was damning.

    "[T]here were complaints about Gosnell, repeatedly. Several different attorneys, representing women injured by Gosnell, contacted the department. A doctor from Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia hand-delivered a complaint, advising the department that numerous patients he had referred for abortions came back from Gosnell with the same venereal disease. The medical examiner of Delaware County informed the department that Gosnell had performed an illegal abortion on a 14-year-old girl carrying a 30-week-old baby. And the department received official notice that a woman named Karnamaya Mongar had died at Gosnell’s hands.

    Yet not one of these alarm bells – not even Mrs. Mongar’s death – prompted the department to look at Gosnell or the Women’s Medical Society.
    Only after the raid occurred, and the story hit the press, did the department choose to act."

    And it wasn't just the Department of Health. Again, from the report:

    "But even this total abdication by the Department of Health might not have been fatal. Another agency with authority in the health field, the Pennsylvania Department of State, could have stopped Gosnell single-handedly. While the Department of Health regulates facilities, the Department of State, through its Board of Medicine, licenses and oversees individual physicians. Like their colleagues at Health, however, Department of State officials were repeatedly confronted with evidence about Gosnell, and repeatedly chose to do nothing.

    Indeed, in many ways State had more damning information than anyone else. Almost a decade ago, a former employee of Gosnell presented the Board of Medicine with a complaint that laid out the whole scope of his operation: the unclean, unsterile conditions; the unlicensed workers; the unsupervised sedation; the underage abortion patients; even the over-prescribing of pain pills with high resale value on the street. The department assigned an investigator, whose investigation consisted primarily of an offsite interview with Gosnell. The investigator never inspected the facility, questioned other employees, or reviewed any records. Department attorneys chose to accept this incomplete investigation, and dismissed the complaint as unconfirmed."
    Everybody knew about this, at least among the abortion providing community in Pennsylvania and the surrounding states. It was a highly profitable enterprise, an abortion cash cow. The people who claim to care about protecting women, the Progressive, pro-choice, feminist-certified government attorneys and bureaucrats at the Pennsylvania Department of Health and Department of State, the employees of clinics in other states, Planned Parenthood, they all knew. They swept it all out with the trash, because they just didn't give a damn. The people who told you that there was a Republican war on women had no problem with Gosnell until he was so blatantly exposed that they could no longer hide him, and then they pretended to attack. The media, which was complicit in the lie, ignored the story until they were shamed into covering it. The only pro-choicer who cared about the victims here is, well... you.
    I thought you had a good analysis of the situation. I thought you explained things way better than others I've heard from. Then, I read the last sentence. I've said where I stand on the issue, and I don't know how to convince you all of differently. You can just believe whatever you want to believe. Whatever.
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  10. #30  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I thought you had a good analysis of the situation. I thought you explained things way better than others I've heard from. Then, I read the last sentence. I've said where I stand on the issue, and I don't know how to convince you all of differently. You can just believe whatever you want to believe. Whatever.
    My apologies. I forgot who I was talking to.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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