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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I don't think he should be charged with treason, for two reasons:

    1. I don't think McCain's intent was treasonous
    and
    2. I'm guessing that someone in the Obama administration signed off on the trip-probably John Kerry or a designee. Someone other than just McCain thought it was a good idea to reach out to the Syrian rebels.

    Collective stupidity doesn't make it "right" or "legal".

    Using the words Obama, Kerry...or .Obama administration's policy with regards to the Syrian situation in supporting Al Qaeda Rebels is a good rule of thumb that McCain and his ilk are morons.

    The facts are that Al Nasra is a wing of Al Qaeda. They make up the heart of the Syrian rebellion. They killed 3000 Americans on 9-11. Arming them is treasonous. Basic common sense.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


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  2. #12  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Collective stupidity doesn't make it "right" or "legal".

    Using the words Obama, Kerry...or .Obama administration's policy with regards to the Syrian situation in supporting Al Qaeda Rebels is a good rule of thumb that McCain and his ilk are morons.

    The facts are that Al Nasra is a wing of Al Qaeda. They make up the heart of the Syrian rebellion. They killed 3000 Americans on 9-11. Arming them is treasonous. Basic common sense.
    Show me where McCain met with Al Nasra, and we can talk. Until then your talking out of your ass.

    Also, Al Nasra makes up about 5-10 thousand fighters. The Free Syrian Army upwards to 100,000. They are hardly the "heart" of the rebellion.
    In most sports, cold-cocking an opposing player repeatedly in the face with a series of gigantic Slovakian uppercuts would get you a multi-game suspension without pay.

    In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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  3. #13  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Show me where McCain met with Al Nasra, and we can talk. Until then your talking out of your ass.

    Also, Al Nasra makes up about 5-10 thousand fighters. The Free Syrian Army upwards to 100,000. They are hardly the "heart" of the rebellion.
    You're debating someone who allowed Obama to get re-elected because he was buthurt the head Ronulan didn't get the nomination.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  4. #14  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    WTF?
    You think say Al Nasra/Al Qaeda is somehow better to support than Hezbollah. I say neither.
    That is not what I said. In fact, I said that neither side was any good, but that our interests would be best served by a long, protracted stalemate that saps both sides, and that any actions that we take should follow that end. Keeping the bad guys at each others' throats so that they have no time or resources to devote to attacking us is the way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Yes. We all know you and McCain all have a great strategy that you can sum up and talk about in clear terms ad nauseum........nevermind that it is completely wrong. It is directly supporting a terror network we are actively engaged in war against.
    Lumping me in with McCain is BS and you know it, or you would if you bothered to read my post. McCain wants the US to intervene on the side of the rebels. I don't. I want us to provide just enough support to prolong the war and exhaust both sides. This, BTW, was what Reagan did during the Iran/Iraq war, and was good policy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Must Arm the Libyan rebels - American Ambassodor murdered by those rebels in Benghazi.
    Well, if the NY Times says it, then it must be true. The weapons that were sent to the Libyan rebels were sent by the State Department over the objections of the CIA and DOD, who normally handle these kinds of ops, for exactly the reason that you cite, but Hillary was sure that she knew better, and ended up giving al Qaeda access to handheld antiaircraft weapons, which Stevens was then sent to buy back, which is why he was killed. Neither I nor anybody that I know advocated that idiocy, and I defy you to find a post where I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    There's a "good idea" limit for you guys and it's been reached. Why should anyone listen to you or McCain or Twinkle Toes Lindsey Graham? Surprising part is that you want to talk about supporting ANY Islamist extremists, especially, Al Qaeda wing in Syria, since you talk about the coming of Sharia law in your sleep these days. How much faster would it come under this bunch?
    Once again, you appear to be arguing with phantoms, since that is the exact opposite of what I said. To the extent that we should involve ourselves in Syria, and I don't believe that we should, as there is really not much that we could accomplish, it should be to provide just enough support to prolong the fight, but not enough to be decisive, so that the Sunni extremists and the Shia extremists spend their time, effort and lives in a futile civil war, instead of expanding the global caliphate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Which is why an older ideal is coming back into fashion in Conservative circles..... a more sensible wing is gaining traction on issues of FP. They understand the difference between a stable regime and an unstable one. I don't have as short a memory as some and still remember when levels of intervention sensibility reigned supreme instead of unlimited intervention that destabalized entire regions.

    But it seems these McCain types are ever moving into the Democratic party, so I wouldn't rule out a move there for anyone of likemindedness.
    A stable Assad regime is not in our interest, as it would continue to foment instability around it as Iran's proxy. A Syria run by Islamist Sunnis isn't in our interest either. There is no upside for us in this fight, except for the fight itself. What part of that do you not understand?

    BTW, isn't Ben Swann the guy who you cited the last time that I spanked you on Syria? The guy who interviewed an Allawite shill for Assad that he tried to present as an unbiased observer? And didn't he also have some crackpot conspiracy theory about multiple shooters in Sandy Hook? If he's your idea of a reliable source, then you really need to stop worrying about where I get my ideas and take off the tin foil hat.

    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Show me where McCain met with Al Nasra, and we can talk. Until then your talking out of your ass.

    Also, Al Nasra makes up about 5-10 thousand fighters. The Free Syrian Army upwards to 100,000. They are hardly the "heart" of the rebellion.
    We aren't at war with any of the factions in Syria, and he spent his time with Gen. Salem Idris, who is probably the most pro-western of the Syrian rebels, but unfortunately, that makes him Kerensky to somebody else's Lenin. Senators have a certain amount of leeway in their travels under the guise of "fact-finding," but unless McCain committed the US to a course of action in the absence of the executive branch, his visit didn't violate any laws that I'm aware of. That doesn't mean that it was a good idea, but it wasn't treason.
    --Odysseus
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member DumbAss Tanker's Avatar
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    I'm sure McCain was told and believed he was meeting with the democracy-loving part of the rebels, as opposed to the part affiliated with AQ that will ultimately seize control once Assad is brought low. I have no faith in his ability to get even that much right, though.
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  6. #16  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DumbAss Tanker View Post
    I'm sure McCain was told and believed he was meeting with the democracy-loving part of the rebels, as opposed to the part affiliated with AQ that will ultimately seize control once Assad is brought low. I have no faith in his ability to get even that much right, though.
    Same here. Fortunately, his actions are pretty much irrelevant. He isn't in a position to provide aid to the rebels, and since he doesn't have anything to offer, they will provide him with a nice photo op and send him on his way.

    The US has provided limited aid to the rebels, mostly in the form of personal protective gear (IBA vests and the like), but not much else. We ought to be providing them with MOPP gear, too, so that they can negate Assad's chemical weapons advantage. The longer that this goes on without a resolution, the better it is for the rest of the world.
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    You all keep on justifying a sitting Senator meeting with terrorists. It's fine by me.
    I seem to remember others here suggesting they expect high standards of awareness from public officials and that they are supposed to know the company you keep during photo ops.

    For even the suggestion that we should support this group and the fact he is supporting legislation to do so, McCain should be indicted right along with alot of key Obama administration officials. Starting with Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder.

    Two men pictured next to Mr. McCain were responsible for kidnapping 11 Lebanese Shiites, press from that country is claiming, as reported in the Daily Mail. And nine of those abducted are still being held hostage, the Daily Star in Beirut claims.

    The two suspected kidnappers — Mohamed Nour and Abu Ibrahim — in the photo with Mr. McCain are members of the Northern Storm militant group, who are believed to have planned and executed the abduction, the Daily Star said.


    http://www.washingtontimes.com/multi...ccain28201jpg/

    Oh and Odysseus. It doesn't just take the NY fucking Times to know that the Benghazi affair was about American armed terrorists killing an American ambassador in Libya, that there was a major cover up and that similar circumstances are underway in Syria....... But leave it to you to attack the "source" rather than discover the "truth".
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


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  8. #18  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    You're debating someone who allowed Obama to get re-elected because he keeps voting for left wing faux conservatives like McInsane and Romney and supported lock and step with George W Bush while he implemented the Democratic Party Platform, weakened the GOP which led to the Obama presidency.
    fixed.

    take some responsibility for not being involved.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


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  9. #19  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    Can't we just use an enhanced radiation weapon on the area and call it a day???
    May the FORCE be with you!
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  10. #20  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    You all keep on justifying a sitting Senator meeting with terrorists. It's fine by me.
    I seem to remember others here suggesting they expect high standards of awareness from public officials and that they are supposed to know the company you keep during photo ops.
    Nobody here is justifying it. We all think that it was a pretty stupid idea. I just don't think that it comes to the level of treason, which is defined explicitly in the Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

    Now, did McCain know that he was meeting with terrorists? Probably not, or he wouldn't have done it. Did he give them aid and comfort? If so, what aid? A photo op? Given that Medea Benjamin and her Code Pinko ilk actually gave money to al Qaeda, knowing full well that they were in combat with US forces, and didn't get so much as a wrist slap, or that John Kerry, while still on active duty with the US Navy, met with the North Vietnamese delegation to the Paris Peace talks (again, while they were engaged in actualy combat with the US) and now heads the State Department, I'd say that McCain's actions don't warrant a prosecution for treason. It was ill-advised, certainly risky, but unless you can demonstrate that he provided some kind of material support for those factions within the Syrian opposition that consider themselves at war with us, then treason is off the table.


    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    For even the suggestion that we should support this group and the fact he is supporting legislation to do so, McCain should be indicted right along with alot of key Obama administration officials. Starting with Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder.
    You are equating the expression of an opinion with the active measures taken to cover up the murder of an ambassador? Really? What other opinions would you consider indictable offenses, oh radical civil libertarian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/multi...ccain28201jpg/

    Oh and Odysseus. It doesn't just take the NY fucking Times to know that the Benghazi affair was about American armed terrorists killing an American ambassador in Libya, that there was a major cover up and that similar circumstances are underway in Syria....... But leave it to you to attack the "source" rather than discover the "truth".
    Would those "Lebanese Shiites" just happen to be members of Hezbollah? Just asking, especially since the identification of the alleged kidnappers was made in the Lebanese press, which is controlled by the government, which happens to be controlled by the Assad regime via its proxy, Hezbollah. The cover story, that they were Shia "pilgrims," has been used before with regard to Hezbollah fighters who were infiltrating into Syria on behalf of Assad, but once again, you are accepting the worst possible spin on the story, put out by regime partisans, and flaming anyone who points out what is obvious to everybody but you. Why are you accepting the Assad regime's propaganda at face value?
    --Odysseus
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    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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