Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32
  1. #21  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Jihad Me At Hello
    Posts
    4,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Nobody here is justifying it. We all think that it was a pretty stupid idea. I just don't think that it comes to the level of treason, which is defined explicitly in the Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

    Now, did McCain know that he was meeting with terrorists? Probably not, or he wouldn't have done it.
    If McCain didn't know, he is simply a fool. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But it doesn't mean it is not time for him to go away. The game in Syria is not for fools and if he "didn't know", then what else does he "not know". Based on his understanding of the middle east.....a whole hell of alot

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/fam...into-sy,32601/

    You are equating the expression of an opinion with the active measures taken to cover up the murder of an ambassador? Really? What other opinions would you consider indictable offenses, oh radical civil libertarian?
    But he's is actively pursuing, introducing and voting on legislation that directly FUNDS these groups. So I may jest about indicting him on his actions, but I do not jest when I lump him in with the likes of Obama, Clinton and Holder.


    Would those "Lebanese Shiites" just happen to be members of Hezbollah? Just asking, especially since the identification of the alleged kidnappers was made in the Lebanese press, which is controlled by the government, which happens to be controlled by the Assad regime via its proxy, Hezbollah.

    Don't really care. They are ALL dirtbags and we should have no use for any of them. If history has shown anything it's that supporting any faction in the middle east doesn't buy you security and doesn't turn out well down the road. Scheuer tried to point this out to a deaf nation 12 years ago. (You can't buy off Muslims, they hold no loyalty for past support, etc.)

    In the end though, I am thankful McCain and his ilk are on the way out. He has alot of American blood on his hands, so I would simply be satisfied with shipping his old butt back over to Syria so he can directly help them instead of voting more taxpayer spoils to directly fund terrorism.

    Some Republican is going take this gift these old guard GOP buggers are giving them. Where they make themeselves look like selfish unpatriotic Obama minions and use it in 2016 for a GOP win. Especially when they find out the CIA is actively training the Rebels and this story that they are in bed with Al Qaeda gets more coverage....and especially when new GOP factions begin to wean American's off of 12 years of horrible foreign policy.

    Justin Amash ‏@repjustinamash
    Kind of like some Senators. “@AC360: RT @natlsecuritycnn: @SenJohnMcCain on @AC360: the Iranians are meddling everywhere in the Middle East”
    Senator Ted Cruz‏@SenTedCruz18h
    Noticing quite a few fellow #Wackobirds tweeting tonight! Proud to stand with you as we #CruztoVictory for liberty!
    So good to see Junior Republican Senators like Mike Lee, Justin Amash, and Ted Cruz talk like this again.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #22 More news on Obama's buddies murdering Christians 
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Jihad Me At Hello
    Posts
    4,769
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Fath...xtMenu&ie=&oe=

    https://www.facebook.com/SenatorTedC...92863310825975

    Prayers for Father Francois Murad, beheaded by al Qaida jihadists in Syria. A grim reminder of why we should not give arms to these people, and why it is so important they do not gain access to Assad's chemical weapons stockpiles. Continued prayers for for the two bishops kidnapped in April and for all of the Christians suffering or under threat in that country.

    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #23  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    FT Belvoir, VA
    Posts
    15,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    If McCain didn't know, he is simply a fool. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But it doesn't mean it is not time for him to go away. The game in Syria is not for fools and if he "didn't know", then what else does he "not know". Based on his understanding of the middle east.....a whole hell of alot

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/fam...into-sy,32601/
    There are many reasons why McCain should retire, and his naivete regarding the intentions of al Qaeda affiliates in Syria is certainly one of them, but that's not treason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    But he's is actively pursuing, introducing and voting on legislation that directly FUNDS these groups. So I may jest about indicting him on his actions, but I do not jest when I lump him in with the likes of Obama, Clinton and Holder.
    "Jest?" Seriously? Go back and read your comments and tell me if they read like you were joking about indicting him. You meant it, and we all know that you meant it, so backpedaling now isn't going to change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Don't really care. They are ALL dirtbags and we should have no use for any of them. If history has shown anything it's that supporting any faction in the middle east doesn't buy you security and doesn't turn out well down the road. Scheuer tried to point this out to a deaf nation 12 years ago. (You can't buy off Muslims, they hold no loyalty for past support, etc.)
    They are all dirtbags, which is why the best policy is to prolong the war so that they end up killing each other. What part of that do you not understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    In the end though, I am thankful McCain and his ilk are on the way out. He has alot of American blood on his hands, so I would simply be satisfied with shipping his old butt back over to Syria so he can directly help them instead of voting more taxpayer spoils to directly fund terrorism.
    I suppose that saying that McCain has American blood on his hands is another "jest?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Some Republican is going take this gift these old guard GOP buggers are giving them. Where they make themeselves look like selfish unpatriotic Obama minions and use it in 2016 for a GOP win. Especially when they find out the CIA is actively training the Rebels and this story that they are in bed with Al Qaeda gets more coverage....and especially when new GOP factions begin to wean American's off of 12 years of horrible foreign policy.

    So good to see Junior Republican Senators like Mike Lee, Justin Amash, and Ted Cruz talk like this again.
    Training the rebels to fight Assad means prolonging the war, and weakening both sides in the long run. Giving them just enough to maintain a stalemate is good policy for us. Now stop talking like a Democrat.

    This is a horrible story, but you really should find a spokesman with more credibility to present it. As it is, we're just getting more shilling for Assad from this clown. We already know that the rebels are as bad as the government, but the Assad Regime is Iran's proxy, and if he falls, it will weaken the mullahs and possibly undermine them to the point where they can be ousted, and also severely complicate their support for Hezbollah, which has far more American blood on its hands than the rebels (remember the Marines in Beirut?). A nuclear-armed Iran with terrorist proxies is a greater threat to us than the rebellion, although both are bad news, but if the mullahs fall, then the Iranian people, who are far more pro-western than their government, can become an ally, and that will provide us with the means to counter the Salafists.

    Here are our options:

    1. Do nothing. Assad wins, Iran continues its nuclear program and the Middle East falls under Iranian hegemony. Iranian nukes will end up in the hands of Hamas and Hezbollah, and they will be used against our allies (and not just Israel, but our European allies, as well) and, eventually, us. This is not acceptable.
    2. Support a rebel win. This would have the short term benefit of weakening Iran and its proxies, but would leave Syria in the hands of al Qaeda and other affiliated Salafist groups. We'd have a couple of years of breathing room while they consolidated, but then Syria would be Afghanistan all over again, plus we would not have the will to engage them before they pulled off a spectacular terror attack.
    3. Support the rebels enough to prolong the war. A prolonged stalemate weakens both sides, exhausts their resources, and may eventually result in regime change in Iran as the drain bankrupts the country.

    Those are the viable courses of action. We're not going to put US troops on the ground in Syria, nor should we. We're not going to nuke Damascus. The only viable COAs are the ones above. COA 3 undermines the most immediate threat, but does not empower the longer term threat. It requires minimal activities on our part, and the potential for regime change in Iran after a failed foreign debacle is strong enough to warrant our investment of time, money and personnel.

    Subject to your questions, I will be followed by the G4.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #24  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Jihad Me At Hello
    Posts
    4,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Here are our options:

    [LIST=1][*]Do nothing. Assad wins, Iran continues its nuclear program and the Middle East falls under Iranian hegemony. Iranian nukes will end up in the hands of Hamas and Hezbollah, and they will be used against our allies (and not just Israel, but our European allies, as well) and, eventually, us. This is not acceptable.
    Your options are based on speculation and possibility. Political options are not the same as military options. Leave the MDMP at work.

    The Assad family has been running things for 40 or more years. Why is it all of a sudden "unacceptable"? There are Nukes already in the hands of dangerous states like NK, and Pakistan. You are fearmongering and base this entirely on speculation.

    What you are really saying is you would rather have Syria in the hands of a complete Muslim caliphate than have stability in the region. I don't give two shits for Assad, but I'm not supporting Al Qaeda in order to get rid of him.

    BTW:Ben Swann is one of the best investigative journalists today hands down. Maybe you've forgotten what good journalism looks like. His assessment is spot on with facts. Find someone better presenting the same story.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #25  
    Senior Member Generation Why?'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Thurston County, WA
    Posts
    709
    Ben Swann, the 15 year old BYU graduate, 16-year journalist, 2x Emmy Winner and 2x Edward R. Murrow Award winner isn't credible?
    “A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.”Ayn Rand

    Power Point Ranger
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #26  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    FT Belvoir, VA
    Posts
    15,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Your options are based on speculation and possibility. Political options are not the same as military options. Leave the MDMP at work.
    Sorry, but somebody ought to be doing MDMP. If you'd analyzed the COAs, you might not draw the same conclusion, but at least do the analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    The Assad family has been running things for 40 or more years. Why is it all of a sudden "unacceptable"? There are Nukes already in the hands of dangerous states like NK, and Pakistan. You are fearmongering and base this entirely on speculation.
    No, I'm making realistic assessments based on past history in the region. Again, let's go with MDMP:

    Facts:
    • Assad is a vassal of Iran.
    • Assad's regime facilitates Iranian support for terrorist proxies in Lebanon and Gaza. This support represents a significant expenditure for the Iranian regime, and these expenditures have imposed real hardship on the Iranian people, most of whom do not support the mullahs.
    • Hezbollah and Hamas are hostile to American interests throughout the world. Before 9-11, Hezbollah murdered more Americans than any other terrorist group, over 300, including 243 Marines in the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing. Hezbollah claims to have terrorist sleeper cells in New York, Los Angeles, Boston, and Detroit.
    • Iran has repeatedly stated that it is at war with us. It considers us the "Great Satan", i.e., the source of all evil in the world. Their nuclear program is meant to provide them with the means to attack us, both directly, and through our allies.
    • Iran has developed missiles that are capable of hitting targets in Europe, and continues to expand their capabilities. They have purchased diesel subs which are capable of launching missiles. They have conducted joint maneuvers in this hemisphere with Venezuela. Iran's intent, which has been clearly stated, is "death to America." Iran sees itself as an existential threat to America.
    • The rebellion in Syria is made up of a number of different groups, most of whom are Islamist or Salafist in character, and many of which are al Qaeda affiliates. They will be no more friendly to us than the Assad regime, but they are extremely unfriendly to Iran, and are actively engaged in combat operations against Hezbollah, which is supplying combat troops to make up Assad's deficit in manpower.

    Assumptions:
    • Iranian capabilities are not yet the equal of their ambitions, however, their stated intent is to acquire the means to attack and destroy America. Given time, their capabilities will match their intent. This is not in our interest.
    • An Iranian victory (the preservation of the Assad regime) will strengthen the mullahs domestically and internationally. An Iranian defeat, or prolonged stalemate will weaken them.
    • An Islamist victory will not advance our interests in the long term, but a Salafist state in Syria would be weaker than the Assad regime.
    • Neither side's victory will advance our interests, but the Salafists are marginally less of a threat than Assad, and their victory would significantly set back Iranian regional power.
    • A long, fruitless conflict will exhaust all sides.
    • Regime change in Iran requires that the mullahs lose their legitimacy before the population. Domestic failures have accomplished a great deal of this, but defeat in Syria, and a demonstration of military weakness, would strike at the Iranian regime's raison d'etre, which is military confrontation with the Great Satan. A catastrophic military failure will weaken the Iranian regime.

    I'll refrain from inserting a Decision Support Template, but suffice to say that of the three COAs presented, COA 3, providing minimal support to the rebellion IOT exhaust both sides, delays the onset of a stable, hostile regime in Syria, undermines Iran and provides the best outcome for the United States.

    This brings us to the revised mission statement, which is: The United States will shape the Syrian conflict IOT advance American interests in the region and weaken our enemies, with the most minimal commitment of American assets possible.

    Now, let's look at the Commander's Intent. Normally, that would come out of the DOD, but since I'm doing it, I'll play commander. My intent is to advance the interests of the United States. Those interests are maintaining stability for our allies, the defeat of Iran and al Qaeda, or, at a minimum, Iran, but under circumstances that exhaust both sides. We can do this by providing sufficient small arms and training to the rebels, while imposing a no-fly zone over rebel held areas. This will provide them with safe operating havens, but not the means to decisively defeat Assad's forces, nor permit Assad's forces to decisively defeat them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    What you are really saying is you would rather have Syria in the hands of a complete Muslim caliphate than have stability in the region. I don't give two shits for Assad, but I'm not supporting Al Qaeda in order to get rid of him.
    I'm not saying it because it isn't true. I've already told you what I think ought to be the correct course of action, which is to provide enough aid to prolong the fight and exhaust both sides, but I have as yet to hear you explain why you object to that. In the end, Syria is going to be run by someone hostile to us, so our best bet is to exhaust them before they come to power. Why do you think that this is a bad idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    BTW:Ben Swann is one of the best investigative journalists today hands down. Maybe you've forgotten what good journalism looks like. His assessment is spot on with facts. Find someone better presenting the same story.
    There are lots of better sources for the same story. Here are a few:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-crowd.html
    http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...adists_beh.php
    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...d-beheaded.htm

    Swann's credibility on Syria took a huge hit when he presented that Assad shill as an independent observer, and his wingnut theory about multiple shooters in Sandy Hook (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page..._Swann-_Sandy_) and appearances on the Alex Jones' show should at least make you think twice before presenting more of his analysis.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #27  
    Ancient Fire Breather Retread's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    I came to Texas as soon as I could
    Posts
    4,659
    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    Ben Swann, the 15 year old BYU graduate, 16-year journalist, 2x Emmy Winner and 2x Edward R. Murrow Award winner isn't credible?
    Same category as the Nobel winning little o.

    And - Ody is at 5-0, 5-0 and going for the Ace.
    It's not how old you are, it's how you got here.
    It's been a long road and not all of it was paved.
    Live every day as if it were your last, because one of these days, it will be.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #28  
    Moderator txradioguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Bavaria
    Posts
    7,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    Ben Swann, the 15 year old BYU graduate, 16-year journalist, 2x Emmy Winner and 2x Edward R. Murrow Award winner isn't credible?
    Ben Swann who pissed away his credibility by claiming the official version of what happened in shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary was a hoax.
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

    Liberalism Is The Philosophy Of The Stupid

    To Achieve Ordered Liberty You Must Have Moral Order As Well

    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #29  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    FT Belvoir, VA
    Posts
    15,638
    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    Ben Swann, the 15 year old BYU graduate, 16-year journalist, 2x Emmy Winner and 2x Edward R. Murrow Award winner isn't credible?
    Not on Syria. He presented an interview with what he claimed was an impartial Syrian, who turned out to be an Alawite, which makes him a member of Assad's sect. This guy spun a load of BS about how good things were under Assad, and how awful things would be if he were deposed. The Alawi are a very small minority in Syria, but they run the country, so it was the equivalent of asking a Boer about Apartheid, except that the Boer would have been more upfront about his agenda.

    The world is full of smart people who do dumb things when they are out of their field of expertise. Swann was suckered, and Molon Labe only cites him because he provides the Buchananite line. Note that at no time has ML actually addressed any of my arguments, he's just throwing out invective.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #30  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Jihad Me At Hello
    Posts
    4,769
    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    Ben Swann who pissed away his credibility by claiming the official version of what happened in shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary was a hoax.
    Show where he said "hoax". He said that journalists demand "answers" about it. You see...he does this thing. It's called "thinking". Most people in journalism today don't use that tool. Leave it to you to deflect about Syria on a Red herring.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •