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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    You've clearly never been to a Black Friday sale. I'd rather face a dozen jihadis than those chubby housewives during a door buster.

    People don't evolve past the need for belief systems. We may learn more about the world around us, but we still have systems of belief that fill in the gaps. Atheism as a belief simply flatters the atheist, who considers himself more evolved than those poor benighted fools who worship what he sees as primitive sky spirits, while the atheist worships himself. The various pathological ideologies of the left can only flourish among spoiled, self-absorbed narcissists who see themselves as superior entities, even as they espouse ideas that wouldn't stand a moment's scrutiny if they looked at them dispassionately.
    I think that's too broad a statement. There really is a segment of the population which does not require supernatural explanations for the unknown- they simply accept that there is an unknown or rely on theories which would suggest that the unknown isn't completely unknown. For example, as I understand it, Chinese native culture has no Creation myth. They simply accept that there was a beginning of some sort. This would be consistent with a scientific approach. Buddhism, the non god-ized version, is in essence the belief that we are energy (luminous beings are we - Yoda) and that energy is not destroyed in death but released. That's a fairly respectable philosophy given when it was conceived and that it essentially grew out of Hinduism, which of course includes a considerable amount of belief in alien visitation than JCI.

    It's not narcissism to hold that universal morality is an evolution of philosophy and not a gift from various gods who at the same time have repeatedly demonstrated in mythology that they are anything but moral.
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  2. #12  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I think that's too broad a statement. There really is a segment of the population which does not require supernatural explanations for the unknown- they simply accept that there is an unknown or rely on theories which would suggest that the unknown isn't completely unknown. For example, as I understand it, Chinese native culture has no Creation myth. They simply accept that there was a beginning of some sort. This would be consistent with a scientific approach. Buddhism, the non god-ized version, is in essence the belief that we are energy (luminous beings are we - Yoda) and that energy is not destroyed in death but released. That's a fairly respectable philosophy given when it was conceived and that it essentially grew out of Hinduism, which of course includes a considerable amount of belief in alien visitation than JCI.
    Your understanding is incorrect. There are several versions of Chinese Creation myths. For example:

    Chinese Myth - Creation

    In the beginning, the universe was a black egg where heaven and earth were mixed together, and in this egg was contained Pangu. He felt suffocated, so he cracked the egg with a broadax, and the light, clear part of the egg floated up to form Heaven while the cold, heavy part stayed down and formed Earth. Pangu stood in the middle, and he and the egg's two parts grew and grew until he was nine million li in height.

    When Pangu died, his breath became the wind and clouds, his voice the rolling thunder, and his eyes the sun and the moon. His hair and beard became the stars in the sky, the flowers and trees from his skin, the marrow in his bones became jade and pearls, and his sweat the good rain that nurtured the Earth.

    There are several versions of the Pangu legend, but one that is common in southern China is that of King Fang and King Gao Xin. Pangu was King Gao Xin's dog, and King Gao Xin had a great enmity with King Fang. He proclaimed, "Anyone who can bring me King Fang's head will have my daughter's hand in marriage," but no one would try because of King Fang's fearsome army.

    One day Pangu slipped away and went to King Fang's court. King Fang was happy to see that he had deserted King Gao Xin, and welcomed him with a banquet. However, that night, Pangu sneaked into the king's chambers and bit off his head, returning back to King Gao Xin with it.

    King Gao Xin was overjoyed to see that Pangu had brought King Fang's head, but did not think to marry his daughter to a dog. Pangu would not eat for three days, and the king asked, "Why do you not eat? Are you angry that I would not marry my daughter to you?"

    Pangu said, "No, just cover me with your golden bell for seven days and I'll turn into a man." The king did so, but the princess peeked under on the sixth day. She found that Pangu already had man's body but retained a dog's head. However, once the bell had been raised the magic change stopped, and he remained a man with a dog's head. The princess married him and the settled in southern China, where they had four children, who became the ancestors of mankind.
    http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/...t/ChineseC.htm

    That whole black egg thing sounds more mythological than cosmological to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    It's not narcissism to hold that universal morality is an evolution of philosophy and not a gift from various gods who at the same time have repeatedly demonstrated in mythology that they are anything but moral.
    Sure it is. The presumption that man, left unaided, can create perfect systems of morality is one of the conceits of the various Jacobin, Communist, Socialist and Fascist movements, and that conceit is narcissistic to the core. It also ignores a more critical piece, which is that what we consider morality evolves, not from the philosophies of elites, but from cultural norms, validated through centuries of trial and error. The morality that enforced the civic virtues of Greece and Rome during their rise eroded when they were at their greatest power, and then collapsed as they did. Today, we see the same thing as urban elites impose their prejudices on the rest of us in the name of their various fetishes (Diversity, Gender Equity, Socialism, etc.,), while proclaiming their devotion to the latest incarnation of the cult of reason. History repeats, but our leaders pride themselves on their deconstruction of narratives, rather than knowledge of facts.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member Generation Why?'s Avatar
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    I certainly hope that isn't their goal. I just started to question things and then *BOOM* I realized I was an atheist. I differ from Hitchens and Dawkins in that I do not want to get rid of religion. I certainly think it can be a bad thing, but so can atheism if taken to extremes like anything else. I hope I am not out of line when I say that I wouldn't mind a society free of religion but that would involve religion never being a thing. I don't disagree with religion, I just don't have one. Most atheists, at least the ones I know, are of the "live and let live" mentality, for the most part libertarian in our views. Your religious views don't hurt anyone and we are fine with that. So long as it is left out of the legislative process we don't care.

    As far as atheism being a church; that's simply not true. It is not true by definitions alone. There is a lot of hate spit out from both ends of the argument whether it's the internet or actual conversation.

    And they don't try to use evolution to explain moral behavior. They use cultural/sociological upbringing as the catalyst for explaining moral beavior. What is taboo in one place may not be in another. Example: Women are treated pretty much like shit in a lot of places in the Middle East. Not so much in some places but we all know about Saudi Arabia and Iran's views on those matters. Women used to not have it so great here in America not too loong ago. Our society "evolved", if you will.

    Anyway, I don't care if you pray to Jesus, Muhammad, or a goldfish in Nebraska. I care about people's actions.
    A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. Ayn Rand

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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    or a goldfish in Nebraska. I care about people's actions.
    He wasn't really god, he died last week and was flushed down the toilet, he left behind many dispirited and confused followers, some of them were last seen following Mr. Turtle from My Name Is Earl.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Generation Why?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockntractor View Post
    He wasn't really god, he died last week and was flushed down the toilet, he left behind many dispirited and confused followers, some of them were last seen following Mr. Turtle from My Name Is Earl.
    Haha. Thanks for the pick-me-up, Rock.
    A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. Ayn Rand

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  6. #16  
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    I began to gravitate to atheism from theism almost 60 years ago after reading A. E. Haydon's Biography of the Gods in the Valparaiso University library as a freshman. Over several years I reached two opinions; deities are defined by the culture in which they are developed, and there are just too many different definitions to be sure that any one, if any, could be the correct one.

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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv View Post
    I began to gravitate to atheism from theism almost 60 years ago after reading A. E. Haydon's Biography of the Gods in the Valparaiso University library as a freshman. Over several years I reached two opinions; deities are defined by the culture in which they are developed, and there are just too many different definitions to be sure that any one, if any, could be the correct one.
    That's why believing in one is called faith.
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