Thread: DOMA Goes Down

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  1. #71  
    Senior Member Generation Why?'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    I see. So then I can kill you and go home and have supper.

    Basically, you're a "I can do what I want" kind of guy. No laws governing anything related to morality, is that it?
    So long as your actions don't harm anyone other than you. Killing me does not fit that mold. It's known as the Non-Aggression Principle.
    A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. Ayn Rand

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  2. #72  
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    Nope. Besides the obvious reasons why I don't agree with it I couldn't stand having three mothers-in-law at the same time.

    I'm sure you have had or have a girlfriend...lovely girl I have no doubt...now multiply her by two or three and keep them all happy all the time.

    My husband says people assume the laws against polygamy are intended to protect women, but they're really to protect MEN. :)
    "Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
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  3. #73  
    I miss when this country had a brain.
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  4. #74  
    Sin City Moderator RobJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by linda22003 View Post
    Ruled unconstitutional this morning by the Supreme Court. Watching it live on CSPAN 3.
    Who voted for that law in the first place?



    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LI...n=2&vote=00280
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  5. #75  
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    Truly a sad day in America.
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  6. #76  
    Senior Member Zathras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainMan View Post
    Truly a sad day in America.
    Yup...millions of Californians have been told, twice, by their State and Federal governments that their votes don't matter.

    Something else that is not being mentioned is that these two decisions by SCOTUS have made legitimate the ignoring of laws by government officials because they don't like them. Obama and Holder in DC and Brown and Harris in California have violated their oaths of office by not defending DOMA and Prop 8 in court.
    Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf
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  7. #77  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zathras View Post
    Yup...millions of Californians have been told, twice, by their State and Federal governments that their votes don't matter.

    Something else that is not being mentioned is that these two decisions by SCOTUS have made legitimate the ignoring of laws by government officials because they don't like them. Obama and Holder in DC and Brown and Harris in California have violated their oaths of office by not defending DOMA and Prop 8 in court.
    The only question I have is how long will the final stage of decay last?
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  8. #78  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Are you saying that the infestation of Europe with messianic Judaism was the beginning of the end?
    You know better than that. There was no messianic Judaism that infested Europe. By 450 AD, Jews had been scattered throughout the Roman empire as slaves, due to the sacking of Jerusalem, but had little influence. Christianity went east with Constantine, and the western empire collapsed due to the issues described previously. Nice straw man, though, although Ray Bolger did it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    BTW- I am not a Piso to my knowledge. I am however a descendant of Turks, the Rus, and Mohammed through the Emir of Seville.
    How lovely for you. I'm sure that being able to trace your family back through all of those generations is a superb consolation for the disappoints of the current one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Generation Why? View Post
    I am actually going to agree with you here, only to an extent. In my opinion, marriage is a union between two individuals of consenting age. At the same time polygamy or polyamory doesn't affect me. I say this with the preconceived concept that we would get rid of tax incentives for marriage. (And in my little libertarian utopia, get rid of all taxes minus sales tax) Because of tax incentives I understand why polygamy and polyamory are illegal and don't contest it. In accordance with current tax laws.
    Polygamy actually does have impacts beyond those who indulge. First, you will have to accept as given that more men will want multiple wives than women will want multiple husbands. Partly, this is a function of biology, which dictates that a woman can only carry so many children to term, while a man has far fewer limits. Female sexuality is invariably more selective than male sexuality, but regardless, a society that permits group marriages is going to have a preponderance of polygamous marriages and very few marriages involving one woman and multiple men. Given a roughly equal birth rate, a polygamous society is therefore going to have an imbalance. If there are 100 men and 100 women, and only 20% of the men seek multiple wives, then that means that 20% of the men will account for at least 40% of the available women. If, out of that 20 men, 5 men decide to marry more than two women, going for the Muslim limit of 4 per man, that further restricts the pool of eligible females. To crunch the numbers, the 5 men with 4 wives account for 20 women. The remaining 15 men, with 2 wives each, account for an additional 30. That means that 20 men marry 50 women, leaving 50 women for the remaining 70 men. That is a zero sum game. The consequences of this can be seen in tribal cultures throughout the world. First, women become a commodity, and marriage becomes far more of an arrangement between families than between individuals. Second, households with multiple wives raising children are rife with internal rivalries that erode trust relationships beyond immediate blood ties. This is one of the sources of the lack of trust in tribal cultures. Finally, men who have to compete for fewer women are more likely to engage in riskier, violent behavior against other men and women in order to gain sexual contacts. The social consequences of this are extremely corrosive to societal order. Note that in competition between cultures, the monogamous cultures of Ancient Greece and Rome accounted for far greater political, economic and intellectual freedom than any of the surrounding polygamous cultures. More critically, no polygamous society has managed to assimilate into the modern world. Polygamous cultures are invariably the most backward cultures, for the reasons that I've cited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    If you want to marry your sister go ahead. How Egyptian.
    A few years ago, when it was suggested that gay marriage would lead to the erosion of other prohibitions within marriage, gay activists claimed that there was no possible way that incest or polygamy would be follow. You personally made that argument repeatedly. Now, you are moving the goalposts once again. If every position that activists have staked out has turned out to be an incremental assault on sexual norms and prohibitions, then at what point will the slide into sexual anarchy can stop?

    BTW, still waiting for your definition of marriage.
    --Odysseus
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  9. #79  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zathras View Post
    Yup...millions of Californians have been told, twice, by their State and Federal governments that their votes don't matter.
    Question: Had Prop 8 been defeated, would the proponents have been able to throw a hissy fit and challenge to vote?
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  10. #80  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    A few years ago, when it was suggested that gay marriage would lead to the erosion of other prohibitions within marriage, gay activists claimed that there was no possible way that incest or polygamy would be follow.
    There is a sequence error in your statement.
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