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  1. #21  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    May the FORCE be with you!
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  2. #22  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    After the Muslim Brotherhood took over, people were like "Way to go. Bad idea." I couldn't stop supporting the revolution though because I figured that we fought for our freedom. Let Egypt fight for theirs. I'm hoping they get in some more reasonable leadership. If not, then I think the fight will persist. It won't be pretty. We won't like watching it (and we shouldn't be funding them under any of their leaderships). Thing is I don't think they'll ever be free until they really fight for it.

    Yeah, I know I sound naive. Oh well.
    Yes, yes you do. You really need to read Anatomy of Revolution. Here's a good summary, but the critical takeaway is that in any revolution, the transition to power is going to depend on the levels of organization within the revolutionary organizations. Simply put, the best organized, toughest thugs usually win. The American Revolution was unique in that we had a history of self-government and our revolutionaries toughs were also principled republicans who sought to restore self-government, not remake the world. The Egyptians have no history of democratic self rule, and their election, like most in the Arab world, resulted in the toughest, best organized thugs winning the first round, and then setting up a government that perpetuated their control. That's not democratic, it's one-man, one-vote, one-time.

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Quite frankly, we (the US, the US govt, whatever) have to back Morsi in this.

    He is a democratically elected leader in a nation that is an ally. I don't see how we can't back him. We can root and cheer that the MoBro's are scumbags (they are) and got what they deserved but we don't back coup's against allies. My .02
    No, we don't. Egypt was an ally, but Morsi was not. Morsi was taking Egypt towards Islamist theocracy and he was inherently hostile to the US. He was an ally of al Qaeda (Ayman al Zawahiri got his start in the Muslim Brotherhood) and a member of an organization that has openly declared war on the US. We have no obligation to support him personally. In addition, his actions, once elected, were distinctly undemocratic. He excluded enough of the opposition so that he could ram through a constitution which permanently enshrined his party, and he subsequently usurped even that minor set of limitations in order to rule by decree. We owe him nothing.
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    No, we don't. Egypt was an ally, but Morsi was not.
    Yes, we do. You either back the guy all the way or you don't. After his legal, democratic election, we backed him, and continued to do so.

    We don't stop backing him because the military doesn't like him anymore. Do we back the military if they decide to overthrow Hollande tomorrow?
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  4. #24  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Yes, we do. You either back the guy all the way or you don't. After his legal, democratic election, we backed him, and continued to do so.

    We don't stop backing him because the military doesn't like him anymore. Do we back the military if they decide to overthrow Hollande tomorrow?


    We shouldn't be backing Egypt at all until they clean up their act. They have a history of anti-Semitism, being anti-woman, etc. We shouldn't be giving them a dime of our money.

    Ody, just because Egypt has never been a free country in the past doesn't mean they can't be one. Maybe we won't be alive to see it, but I believe in the possibility.
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  5. #25  
    Moderator txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Yes, we do. You either back the guy all the way or you don't. After his legal, democratic election, we backed him, and continued to do so.

    We don't stop backing him because the military doesn't like him anymore. Do we back the military if they decide to overthrow Hollande tomorrow?
    We should have never backed him in the first place. This was bad diplomatic policy.

    So no...we do NOT have to support him just because Obama made the mistake of doing so in the first place...that is unless you want to send a clear signal that the U.S. is undeniably on the side of terrorists...which is exactly what the MoBros are...and what we'd be doing if we contiued to support that terrorist thug.
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member LukeEDay's Avatar
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    Obama's best friend kicked out? I guess his people aren't such his people?

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  7. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    We should have never backed him in the first place. This was bad diplomatic policy.
    No argument here tx but that's a discussion for another thread since we already did back him. ie Barndoor/horse thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by trg
    So no...we do NOT have to support him just because Obama made the mistake of doing so in the first place...that is unless you want to send a clear signal that the U.S. is undeniably on the side of terrorists...which is exactly what the MoBros are...and what we'd be doing if we contiued to support that terrorist thug.
    Has Morsi committed genocide or is he corrupt or he is directly supplying arms to Al-Q?

    I actually think it makes us look weak if pull back support for him now. We didn't do it with the Shah when muzzia mania came to Iran when they grabbed our citizens and they demanded his head in exchange.
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    We shouldn't be backing Egypt at all until they clean up their act. They have a history of anti-Semitism, being anti-woman, etc. We shouldn't be giving them a dime of our money.
    Ha. You just described every muzzie nation out there.

    Does that stuff really bother you? Then tops on your list should be Saudi Arabia. They think women are pets. And you get arrested for simply carrying a Bible over there. Why are we so cozy with them? They are scum of the earth.
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  9. #29  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    No argument here tx but that's a discussion for another thread since we already did back him. ie Barndoor/horse thing.

    Has Morsi committed genocide or is he corrupt or he is directly supplying arms to Al-Q?

    I actually think it makes us look weak if pull back support for him now. We didn't do it with the Shah when muzzia mania came to Iran when they grabbed our citizens and they demanded his head in exchange.
    We should not have been supporting the shah or Morsi. Even though Obama is a liberal President, I hope you do realize one of the top points leftists make (real leftists, not that wishy washy crap you all call leftists) is that we tend to throw our support behind the scum of the earth, and then complain when they cone back to stab us in the back. For whatever reason WE DON'T LEARN. Why don't we ever learn? Stop this madness.
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  10. #30  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Ha. You just described every muzzie nation out there.

    Does that stuff really bother you? Then tops on your list should be Saudi Arabia. They think women are pets. And you get arrested for simply carrying a Bible over there. Why are we so cozy with them? They are scum of the earth.
    And they also played a big role in 911 (oh that's right. Those hijackers were all Sweedish and they didn't get any support from the Saudi royal family).

    The far left would say that we're buddies with Saudi Arabia because they're compliant with us regarding oil. To a point, I think I still agree with that belief. We should not be supporting Saudi Arabia, any theocracy, or any communist country. We should be supportive when these countries want independence, but we should not be friends with them or give them our financial support.
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