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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Meshuga Mikey's Avatar
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    the judge has pronounced the words CHILD ABUSE!!!
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  2. #12  
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    This means the prosecution is desperate. They know their false case has been blown out of the water. They know that every shred of evidence supports Zimmerman's story.

    Surely child abuse must also have a threshold?
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meshuga Mikey View Post
    the judge has pronounced the words CHILD ABUSE!!!
    The judge is being guided. Corruption is an understatement here. She ought to be disbarred.
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  4. #14  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    This means the prosecution is desperate. They know their false case has been blown out of the water. They know that every shred of evidence supports Zimmerman's story.

    Surely child abuse must also have a threshold?

    Yes, they must be desperate.

    Florida law is crazy, though. I have no idea what their standard is for criminal child abuse-most of the parents I work with don't get criminally charged, unless there is a serious injury or there was a potential for serious injury or it's sexual abuse, which is a different crime with different sentencing guidelines than felony child abuse.

    But in all those cases, the person being charged was a caretaker or parent. If it is a stranger, they would likely be charged with an assault charge.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    They are doing the proverbial throwing shit up against the wall and see what sticks. No more no less.
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  6. #16  
    Moderator txradioguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    The judge is being guided. Corruption is an understatement here. She ought to be disbarred.
    If you need any further proof of that just listen to her tone and the way she grilled Zimmerman yesterday...almost trying to intimidate him into testifying.

    When I read the transcript of that little dust up my first thought was his not testifying messed up something the prosecution had planned to try and convict him and she was trying to execute a little damage control for the prosecution.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    I have a bad feeling about this. :(
    We're from Philadelphia, We Fight- Chip Kelly
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  8. #18  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meshuga Mikey View Post
    the CHILD ABUSE charges ???

    Prosecutor Richard Mantei argued that instructions for third-degree murder should be included on the premise that Zimmerman committed child abuse when he fatally shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin because Martin was underage.

    SINCE WHEN WOULD a so called victims
    AGE have ANY BEARING on the guilt or innocence of an alleged perpetrator??

    Should the judge allow such bizarre charges to be "filed".....this is going to be the worst summer in US HISTORY!! bare none
    Remember what I said about involuntary manslaughter requiring another crime, which resulted in the death? This is their attempt to add another crime. Without it, they can't get involuntary manslaughter, or third degree manslaughter, so they are doing a hail Mary play in the hopes that the jurors will buy off on it. This means that the prosecution is concerned that they cannot get a conviction for manslaughter, so they are padding the charge to make involuntary manslaughter a possible verdict, but they are playing with fire. The only way that this works is if the jurors see Trayvon as a child, and there's no way that this could be the case. Calling Trayvon Martin a child, after the jury had seen his 18-year-old girlfriend, heard his criminal record, learned of his drug use and seen the evidence of his assault against Zimmerman, is absurd. It's like saying that the Menendez boys should get leniency because they are orphans. It's an attempt to obscure the central fact of the case, which is that Zimmerman was defending himself against an assault which was inflicting grievious bodily harm, and which was likely to be fatal if not stopped. Not that it matters, as the judge disallowed it. The jury's options are limited to murder, manslaughter or acquittal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    This means the prosecution is desperate. They know their false case has been blown out of the water. They know that every shred of evidence supports Zimmerman's story.

    Surely child abuse must also have a threshold?
    It does, and don't call me "Shirley." The judge disallowed it and instructed the jury that it was not one of the charges. However, the prosecution is desperate. Their closing argument was completely at odds with the evidence:




    "A teenager is dead. He is dead through no fault of his own," (unless you consider walking back to confront and assault Zimmerman, knocking him over and pummeling him to be "fault")prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda told jurors. "He is dead because a man made assumptions ... Unfortunately because his assumptions were wrong, Trayvon Benjamin Martin no longer walks this earth."(What assumptions? That Martin was on drugs? That he was wandering around, in the rain, late at night, in a neighborhood that had suffered a number of break-ins? That Martin looked and acted suspiciously? That the guy on his chest who was beating him senseless might not have the best intentions towards him?)

    De la Rionda told the jury that Zimmerman wanted to be a police officer and that's why he followed Martin through his neighborhood even though the teen wasn't doing anything wrong. (except for that whole being stoned thing)

    "He assumed Trayvon Martin was a criminal. That is why we are here," de la Rionda said.(And someone who abuses illegal drugs, carries burglary tools and is caught with stolen jewelry, resulting in school suspensions, is what, exactly?)

    Zimmerman showed ill will and hatred when he whispered profanities to a police dispatcher over his cell phone while following Martin, said de la Rionda as he urged jurors to hold Zimmerman accountable for his actions. In order to get a second-degree conviction, prosecutors must show Zimmerman showed ill will, hatred or spite.(He showed that he wanted criminals apprehended, and his "ill-will" consisted of calling the police, while doing the neighborhood watch patrol. If that's "ill-will" then anything that doesn't involve hearts, flowers and unicorns can be construed as ill-will)

    "The law doesn't allow people to take the law into their own hands," de la Rionda said.(One would hope that knocking people over and pummeling them would be frowned upon, as well)

    De la Rionda dismissed defense claims that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, accusing the neighborhood watch volunteer of lying about what happened. The prosecutor also showed jurors a headshot photo of Martin taken from his autopsy. Jurors trained their eyes on de la Rionda, barely taking notes.(The evidence would imply that it was Zimmerman who was telling the truth, and that the prosecution is lying, but what's a little evidence in the face of a perfectly good narrative?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
    I have a bad feeling about this. :(
    I'm not sure that this is a bad thing. I think that the prosecution just blatantly overreached.
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Remember what I said about involuntary manslaughter requiring another crime, which resulted in the death? This is their attempt to add another crime. Without it, they can't get involuntary manslaughter, or third degree manslaughter, so they are doing a hail Mary play in the hopes that the jurors will buy off on it. This means that the prosecution is concerned that they cannot get a conviction for manslaughter, so they are padding the charge to make involuntary manslaughter a possible verdict, but they are playing with fire. The only way that this works is if the jurors see Trayvon as a child, and there's no way that this could be the case. Calling Trayvon Martin a child, after the jury had seen his 18-year-old girlfriend, heard his criminal record, learned of his drug use and seen the evidence of his assault against Zimmerman, is absurd. It's like saying that the Menendez boys should get leniency because they are orphans. It's an attempt to obscure the central fact of the case, which is that Zimmerman was defending himself against an assault which was inflicting grievious bodily harm, and which was likely to be fatal if not stopped. Not that it matters, as the judge disallowed it. The jury's options are limited to murder, manslaughter or acquittal.



    It does, and don't call me "Shirley." The judge disallowed it and instructed the jury that it was not one of the charges. However, the prosecution is desperate. Their closing argument was completely at odds with the evidence:




    "A teenager is dead. He is dead through no fault of his own," (unless you consider walking back to confront and assault Zimmerman, knocking him over and pummeling him to be "fault")prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda told jurors. "He is dead because a man made assumptions ... Unfortunately because his assumptions were wrong, Trayvon Benjamin Martin no longer walks this earth."(What assumptions? That Martin was on drugs? That he was wandering around, in the rain, late at night, in a neighborhood that had suffered a number of break-ins? That Martin looked and acted suspiciously? That the guy on his chest who was beating him senseless might not have the best intentions towards him?)

    De la Rionda told the jury that Zimmerman wanted to be a police officer and that's why he followed Martin through his neighborhood even though the teen wasn't doing anything wrong. (except for that whole being stoned thing)

    "He assumed Trayvon Martin was a criminal. That is why we are here," de la Rionda said.(And someone who abuses illegal drugs, carries burglary tools and is caught with stolen jewelry, resulting in school suspensions, is what, exactly?)

    Zimmerman showed ill will and hatred when he whispered profanities to a police dispatcher over his cell phone while following Martin, said de la Rionda as he urged jurors to hold Zimmerman accountable for his actions. In order to get a second-degree conviction, prosecutors must show Zimmerman showed ill will, hatred or spite.(He showed that he wanted criminals apprehended, and his "ill-will" consisted of calling the police, while doing the neighborhood watch patrol. If that's "ill-will" then anything that doesn't involve hearts, flowers and unicorns can be construed as ill-will)

    "The law doesn't allow people to take the law into their own hands," de la Rionda said.(One would hope that knocking people over and pummeling them would be frowned upon, as well)

    De la Rionda dismissed defense claims that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, accusing the neighborhood watch volunteer of lying about what happened. The prosecutor also showed jurors a headshot photo of Martin taken from his autopsy. Jurors trained their eyes on de la Rionda, barely taking notes.(The evidence would imply that it was Zimmerman who was telling the truth, and that the prosecution is lying, but what's a little evidence in the face of a perfectly good narrative?)


    I'm not sure that this is a bad thing. I think that the prosecution just blatantly overreached.
    Since I have been accusing people of hearing and seeing things which were not in evidence in the trial (especially my mother's habit of hearing what she wants to hear) please provide a check on me for this:

    I found the prosecution guy in his closing remarks to be thoroughly snide or sarcastic sounding. Whiny as well. He's not very likable, and he doesn't come off as an honest person. Will six women see him differently than I do?
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Since I have been accusing people of hearing and seeing things which were not in evidence in the trial (especially my mother's habit of hearing what she wants to hear) please provide a check on me for this:

    I found the prosecution guy in his closing remarks to be thoroughly snide or sarcastic sounding. Whiny as well. He's not very likable, and he doesn't come off as an honest person. Will six women see him differently than I do?
    If the six women were looking at the evidence, it wouldn't matter if the prosecutor looked like George Clooney or sounded like Joy Behar on a bad day. The evidence is the only thing that is important and it clears George Zimmerman completely.
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