If you aren't sick of the DUmmies hyperbole regarding Zimmerman being acquitted this is a good thread to read. LOL. A few people who know the facts stand up to the hyperbole and emotion of those who believe what they want to believe and are all about hating Zimmerman, guns, the United States and white people.
Star Member XemaSab (57,598 posts)
Is there any evidence that Zimmerman hit Trayvon?Star Member JDPriestly (39,327 posts)
69. If Trayvon was leaning over Zimmerman, where were Trayvon's hands?
How was Trayvon supporting himself. Did his pant legs have mud on them? Did they show that Trayvon had kneeled or put his knees on the ground?
Could you describe how Trayvon was leaning way, way over Zimmerman?
I haven't been able to picture how Trayvon leaned over Zimmerman.
Was Trayvon sitting on Zimmerman's legs? Was he kneeling on the ground, straddling Zimmerman?
If so, where would the placement of Trayvon's knees have been in relationship to Zimmerman's body? At what point on Zimmerman's body would they have been?
I can't see how, if Trayvon was leaning over Zimmerman, Zimmerman could have pulled out his gun. Seems to me his holster would have hit the ground somewhere. I can't see how Zimmerman could have pulled the gun out of his holster and shot Trayvon pretty close to straight in the chest. Seems to me Zimmerman's arm would have had difficulty crossing in front of his body to get a right angle. The story is just not credible to me.Star Member applegrove (59,170 posts)
72. Yup. So many questions. We'll never know
exactly what happened. One thing for sure, I don't think Trayvon threatened Zimmerman's life. That was a lie.ksoze (993 posts)
94. There were stains on Trayvon's pants knees and Zimmerman's jacket back.
To picture how he may have been leaning over Zimmerman, watch the trial - the PROSECUTION demonstrates it with a dummy.kaiden (1,055 posts)
110. Have you seen that photo of a dead Trayvon lying on his back in the grass?
There were NO grass stains OR dirt on his khaki-colored skinny jeans.wercal (552 posts)
117. The defense put into evidence photos of the pants
These photos were taken by the defense, under the supervision of the police.
There are grass stains. You can scroll down for yourself and see the photo here:
You can choose, as some have here, not to believe this.
You can claim, as some have, the stains were applied later.
You can claim, as others have, that these aren't the same pants.
You can claim, as others have, that this is just some rw website.
Or you can accept the fact that there are stains right there for your eyes to see.ksoze (993 posts)
121. Do your research - the evidence pics are clear
A shot at night will not show that detailStar Member LaydeeBug (4,831 posts)
107. The racist Sanford PD never COLLECTED evidence from GZ, only TM.
Because someone from the Prosecutor's office called and told them there was no case and the let GZ go. Then the national outrage sparked charges...three weeks later.
Lurks Often (1,759 posts)
143. They most certainly collected evidence from Zimmerman
They took the gun, DNA swabs, his clothes & car keys at a minimum, plus photos of his injuries: See pages 5-8 at the link
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se..._Discovery.pdfTommy_Carcetti (17,091 posts)
145. I wonder if there was any fiber analysis taken on Zimmerman's hands and fingernails.
I didn't recall there any testimony regarding such analysis, but that doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't.Lurks Often (1,759 posts)
147. Agreed, I do remember seeing a photo of Zimmerman's hands
maybe during the trial. Found the photo
Photo of Zimmerman's hands seems to have been taken the night of the shooting at the police station given the clothes and there is nothing to indicate that he had struck anything or anyone. I would presume that bruising should start showing several hours afterward.
With Martin dying almost immediately, the medical experts have testified that there would be no visible bruising on the body and that the ME would have to had cut open Martin's hands to find evidence of internal bruising that would indicate Martin struck Zimmerman. I don't know ME policy, but would suggest that in the absence of a compelling need, a ME is not going to autopsy the body to the point of making the funeral a closed casket affair.Pelican (836 posts)
61. That's exactly the point...
There was zero evidence that Zimmerman acted violently again Martin other than the gunshot.
There was evidence that Martin acted violently against Zimmerman. Zimmerman's head wounds and facial wounds, Martin's wounds on his hands, gun forensics that show Martin on top and witness testimony that Martin was on top attacking.
Do we know with utter certainty who started what based on evidence? No.
The reality though, is that the benefit of the doubt goes to the one that has the most evidence, even if it is not 100% conclusive. That would be Zimmerman and that's why the jury ruled the way they did.Star Member hrmjustin (12,243 posts)
62. Do you have any sympathy for Trayvon?
Pelican (836 posts)
64. I don't know what happened....
If he started it then I don't. If he was killed in cold blood then I do...
Since I don't know, I'm neutral. I'll be honest and admit that I enjoy splashing the cold water of facts and objectivity on everyones inflamed emotions more than I have an actual investment in either side.
Star Member uppityperson (75,755 posts)
66. "if he started it"? What. The. Fuck. No sympathy for a 17 who got shot dead "if he started it".
Yeah, Trayvon started the whole thing and you have no sympathy. Wtf
Star Member BainsBane (13,203 posts)
95. He wasn't carrying a gun
and plus he was back. Some only have sympathy for killers, not victims. Zimmerman did exactly what some the worst gun nuts would like to do. I wonder how many have gone hunting for their own black man to shoot since the verdict? One here has said he isn't ever concerned about Zimmerman's future victims but is instead worried about poor Zimmerman. Evidently we should spend our time worrying about killers instead of victims. If the victim doesn't have a gun, he's worthless as far as some are concerned.Star Member BainsBane (13,203 posts)
100. The trial is over
He is asking if you feel any sense of compassion or humanity. Your answer about the trial is irrelevant. You weren't on the jury. You weren't a judge.
Is that your excuse for having absolutely not concern over the shedding of innocent blood? Because a killer had a gun you privilege him above his victim? A boy was stalked and killed while minding his own business walking home from the store and you can't find any sympathy in yourself?
GreenStormCloud (10,904 posts)
105. I am discussing facts of the trial, not emotions. N/TFacts don't matter......only "my" or "our" outraged emotions!!!!!11111!!!Star Member BainsBane (13,203 posts)
106. That wasn't the question put to you
The question was do you have compassion for Trayvon Martin. You obviously do not, or you wouldn't pretend you were in a trial. Your response was completely non-responsive.
Star Member BainsBane (13,203 posts)
108. Your excuse that you're not operating from emotion is BS
You are emotional. You identify with Zimmerman because you carry a gun and see yourself doing what he did. You fear someone attacking you, so you sympathize with Zimmerman and believe his version of events. To pretend that isn't based on emotion is ludicrous. You gunners act like human compassion is a negative emotion while the fear and paranoia that grip you is somehow rational. It's the other way around. There is nothing rational about your position on this case or on guns in general. Your entire ideology is based on paranoia. The rest of us don't go through life so frightened we feel we need to carry a gun to get through the day.Star Member BainsBane (13,203 posts)
103. The jury was racist
They believed the white man over the black woman. They valued a white killer's life over an innocent black teenager. Obviously they aren't alone in thinking African Americans live are worthless.
Pelican (836 posts)
120. That doesn't even make sense....
One random witness vs the other random witness...
What about the black woman who testified for the defense? Or is that double-reverse-super-secret-double-stamp-it-no-erasies racism?Pelican (836 posts)
88. Eyewitness testimony aside...
Zimmerman was the only one with physical evidence to support his version of events and it showed in the result.Star Member yardwork (37,652 posts)
90. Bullshit. Zimmerman murdered a child.
The dead child is the evidence.
The jury agreed that non-black people get to decide when to kill black men. All's right with the world.
I'll tell you one thing. This case made a radical out if me. Add one more person to the list if those who are coming for your guns. I have a new goal in life.
Star Member yardwork (37,652 posts)
85. Of course Trayvon was pursued by Zimmerman
We know that from his 911 call. He told the dispatcher that he wasn't going to let the fucking punk (?) get away.
Zimmerman chased down an unarmed teen and executed him, then put together a bs self defense excuse. Lots of people see right through this and don't care anyway. To the Zimmerman defenders it is right and good for white people to kill black people. The jury agreed.
If you support Zimmerman, then you support the right of white people to decide when black people have to die. Don't lie to yourself.
And so it goes......Mojo Electro (53 posts)
115. Reading the responses to this thread,
and in watching the public discourse, it's clear that a lot of people have lost their minds over this case. It's a lot of seething, sputtering rage completely devoid of critical thinking. The evidence doesn't fit into some people's version of what they so badly want to have happened. So instead of debating the facts, which may not go their way, they have come off the hinges. For one thing, there is wonton throwing around of the word "racist" which is a very ugly thing to call somebody. The alternate juror that was interviewed predominately discussed the evidence, the timeline, the physical evidence, the layout of the crime scene, etc. and in the comments below he was immediately and with zero justification called a racist. One of many examples.
There's a lot on "Ancient Aliens" being thrown around left and right. "Well there's no proof (x scenario) DIDN'T happen, so that must be what happened!" There are so many hair-brained theories I have heard about this case put forth by erstwhile clear-thinking people. This case has brought out the worst in folks, and it's unfortunate. There's no proof that a meteorite didn't land nearby and a fragment hit Zimmy in the face, doesn't make it the least bit plausible.
I wonder if people are intellectually honest with themselves, do they actually believe from the bottom of their hearts what they say? Do you really believe deep down that the gun recoil hit Zimmy in the face, or that Trayvon did? Do you really, deep down believe that it was Trayvon screaming, or Zimmy? Do you honesty believe that they cops caused Zimmy's injuries with his cooperation, on purpose, to cover for him and for themselves? Do you actually believe Zimmy was a person who was just hell bent on murdering a black kid and finally got the chance on the way home from the grocery store? Let's have some intellectual honesty.
To ask people to take a deep breath and think this one through seems to be too much to ask. The evidence did not support the states case, and that has nothing to do with race.
This was a terrible tragedy, but it is not a civil rights case. That facts don't bear that out, and no mental gymnastics will make it so.