#1 This drives me absolutely crazy. Just because a person of one race kills a person of
08-23-2013, 03:08 PM
- Join Date
- May 2008
Some Duers try to claim that the Zimmerman was racist and killed Martin because he was black.
Then they try to claim that the kids who killed Lane MAY have been racist but there is NO EVIDENCE they killed him because of his race. Aimmerman's case was "race based" while these kids are "not race based" They get taken to task for their illogical thinking and their obvious bias.
Tommy_Carcetti (17,224 posts)
This drives me absolutely crazy. Just because a person of one race kills a person of another.....
...does not automatically make it race based.
Listen, what happened to Christopher Lane--the Australian baseball player murdered in Oklahoma--was horrific. It was senseless. It was truly jaw dropping unbelievably terrible. And if the three individuals in custody (two of them black, and the third appears to either be white or mixed race) are in fact those who committed the act, they are psychopaths of the highest degree and do not deserve to see another day in their life outside of prison.
But there's been a reactionary rush in the wake of the George Zimmerman trial--and it's pretty clear that it's coming from those on the right--to label any crime where an African American is accused of murdering a Caucasian as being automatically race based simply on account of the individual's respective races.
They do this, because in their twisted little minds, blacks "got" to get their "cause celebre" with the Trayvon Martin shooting, and because blacks "got" to have their race based case, well then, whites should get to have theirs, too.
It's the same thinking where some white people (and for full disclosure here, I am white) insist there should be a White History Month because there's a Black History Month, or that white people should get to say "n____r" without repercussion because black people can say it.
The murder of Christopher Lane, as tragic as it was, has absolutely nothing in common with the murder of Trayvon Martin. None.
Trayvon Martin's killing was not "race based" simply because George Zimmerman was white (or as some are so quick to smugly point out, Hispanic white) and Tryavon Martin was black. There have been plenty of cases where the perpetrator was white and the victim was black and that in and of itself did not make it race based.
Travyon Martin's killing was race-based because of the specific circumstances surrounding it. A young black male was doing nothing more than walking home from the store. George Zimmerman automatically tagged Trayvon as a criminal "up to no good," and I have no doubt in my mind Trayvon's race played a part in Zimmerman's thought process that horrible night. Zimmerman may not have shot Trayvon because he was black, but I do believe he followed him and initiated the confrontation in part because Trayvon was black.
Some people, mainly white conservatives, were quite uncomfortable with the fact that the Trayvon Martin case gathered national headlines and national discussions. They wanted it relegated as a "local story", or even worse, wanted to deny even the possibility that what Zimmerman did was a criminal act. They did this mainly out of denial of two things. First, a denial that racism in this country still could manifest itself in 2013 in the forms of issues like racial profiling, and that racial profiling isn't just a myth or an acceptable practice. Second, a denial that a so called "good guy with a gun", a legal gun owner with a CCW permit, could act recklessly or with a depraved heart and criminally cause the death of another person with his weapon. In other words, the facts contradict their narrative.
Could the Christopher Lane murder ultimately turn out to be race based? It's possible. Maybe these individuals did set out to murder Lane because he was white. But it's also possible that these three individuals were just plain old psychopaths who singled out Lane for no reason other than the fact they thought he was an easy target.
(Additionally, the Lane killing is much different from the Trayvon killing because it almost immediately gathered national headlines, and the accused were apprehended very quickly and charged. Contrast that to the Trayvon Martin shooting. I didn't personally learn about the Trayvon Martin shooting until nearly two weeks after it happened, and I first learned about it on local South Florida news because he happened to be from Miami. It took another week for it to make national headlines. And George Zimmerman, after a very brief initial detention, for over two months was treated as someone who had been exonerated from even the possibility of wrongdoing, thanks to a seriously messed up law.)
The bottom line is that the facts in this Lane case are still very much unknown and until there's facts that come out that this was a race-based murder, it shouldn't be viewed as such. But that doesn't stop certain people from automatically jumping to conclusions because, let's be honest, they have a racial chip on their shoulder.
Don't believe me? Take a look at this Facebook page entitled "Justice for Christopher" which I noticed a FB friend of mine liking (and which basically started me on this rant). From it's title, it's seemingly innocuous, but it turns out to be anything but:
Look at people's comments, especially in the "Recent Posts by Others" sections. You have people expressing outrage--outrage over what? The accused perpetrators have been arrested and charged and will be tried. You have people obsessing over black on white crime. You even see someone post articles from a white supremacist website.
These are the people who love to throw around the term "race baiting" but they in fact are the true race baiters here.Star MemberGlassunion (5,100 posts)
14. His twitter account is still active.
If you go though he posts, he strikes me as a misogynist punk, and a racist. If racism was the motive in this crime, I cannot say, as there are no facts out there yet as to why the chose their victim.Tommy_Carcetti (17,224 posts)
15. Right, it's just to early to say.
Clearly he appears to harbor some very ugly racists thoughts.
But being a racist and perpetrating a racial motivated crime aren't always one in the same.
For example, I don't believe--and there's no evidence to suggest--that George Zimmerman was a hard-core racist who hated blacks and who sought out to shoot a black kid just because. I do think, however, that he harbored pre-conceived negative stereotypes against young black males, and it was that pre-conception that started the ball rolling which didn't stop until Trayvon Martin was dead. And that's what, in my opinion, made the shooting of Trayvon Martin race-based.
Star Member JustAnotherGen (7,318 posts)
24. Only from the perspective of a black person in America
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah................
I need to hear/read one testify that the person who pulled the trigger said, "I hate these white punks and they always get away with running while white and I'm gonna get this one" - then I will believe the sole intent and person of this young man being murdered in cold blood with a Gun was based on his skin color.wercal (672 posts)
18. You don't want anyone to make a nexus between the Martin and Lane cases....
One of your statements struck me as odd:
"You have people expressing outrage--outrage over what?"
Ummm...you don't think the case is outrageous? Well, I'll try to explain:
When one of the suspects states to the police that the group killed a man...because they were bored...that is outrageous. And, if you think about it too long, it makes one worry about their own and their family's safety, if bored teenagers have replaced smashing mailboxes and throwing tp in trees with murder.
So what if the perps have been arrested. That doesn't bring Chris Lane back to life. Of course people are outraged.star Member JustAnotherGen (7,318 posts)
32. Posted the day after the Martin verdict
There was still such outrage in the white pro gun community.
And all I could think was -
Why are you so damn angry- Justice was served.
It seems like the justice system is all over this man's murder as well they should be.
star Member Dreamer Tatum (7,679 posts)
22. You're being extremely fatuous
Race might not be the only factor in this Lane case, but are you going to tell me the
evidence found on he shooter's Twitter isn't EXTREMELY damning?
That is literally infinitely more evidence of this shooter's racial bias than of Zimmerman's (I know that since he has been
called a racist on DU about 50,000 times that it's part of the canon, but I'm focusing on actual evidence. "Oh come on,
you know he's a racist" isn't evidence) but I've seen no accounting of that.Tommy_Carcetti (17,224 posts)
26. It only showed the alleged shooter harbored racist beliefs.
It doesn't show that he did to Lane what he's accused of doing because Lane was white.
Whether facts to that extent emerge remain to be seen.
Whereas in the Zimmerman case, we know that Zimmerman repeatedly called police on young black males he deemed to be suspicious, and that he viewed Trayvon as suspicious even though he wasn't actually doing anything wrong, and that it appears he had a breaking point to the extent that he said "these assholes, they always get away" and "fucking punks."
This might not be KKK/Aryan Nation style racism from Zimmerman, but to claim there's no evidence that Zimmerman's actions that night were not race based is to stick one's head in the sand.tar Member Dreamer Tatum (7,679 posts)
27. Wow. Incredible.
Your logic goes on quite the journey, doesn't it?
I can fix this for you: you wanted, and want, Zimmerman to be a racist. You MIGHT very well be right. You DON'T seem to want the Lane shooter to be racially motivated at all (why? I don't know), despite strong evidence to his opinions on Twitter. You're using weak associations to call Trayvon Martin's death racially motivated than Lane's death. Why is that? If Zimmerman had similar posts on Twitter, are you telling me you wouldn't be citing those right now?
I suspect you crave other heads in the sand to keep yours company.Tommy_Carcetti (17,224 posts)
31. Being a racist and engaging in a race-based crime are two different things.
You don't seem to want to realize that distinction.
Fact 1: There hasn't been any evidence come to light yet that the Lane shooter murdered Lane because he was white. I'm not saying that no such evidence will come out, but I am saying there's nothing to speak of yet. Go ahead and show me otherwise.
Fact 2: George Zimmerman on at least five prior occasions had called police regarding people in his neighborhood he believed to be suspicious. All of those persons just so happened to be young black males. Trayvon Martin happened to be a young black male, and George Zimmerman is heard on tape saying that he looks like "he is up to no good" even though he wasn't actually doing anything wrong that evening. And it was enough to motivate George Zimmerman to get out of his car. While armed. And as we know, things deteriorated from that point on.
Those are all two facts we know to be true. And you know them to be true as well.
By the way, did you see any of George Zimmerman's brother's tweets on Twitter? Because you might want to walk back your comments after reading them. But I didn't mention them because it's all beside the point. Being a racist and engaging in a race based crime are two different things. I don't understand how you fail to realize that.
(Just for your own education.....http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.1299501)
Star Member Dreamer Tatum (7,679 posts)
33. Your facts don't support anything of consequence
Except your fact 2 would strongly imply to a reasonable person that you would look at the Lane killer's Twitter posts and conclude racial motive.
Your fact doesn't even establish Zimmerman as a racist, let alone race as a motivator in Martin's death. If you want to claim "yeah, but it looks pretty fishy to me," then if you're consistent in the least, you'd say the same about Lane's killer. But I don't think you want to be consistent.Tommy_Carcetti (17,224 posts)
34. Are you saying that engaging in racial profiling isn't a racist act?
Wherein by you are judging a person not by his character but by the color of his skin?
We have a guy who repeatedly called police about young black males he deemed to be suspicious, and one night he sees another young black male. Doing nothing more than walking through the neighborhood. But somehow it bothers him enough to say that he is "up to no good", that he is a "fucking punk" and an "asshole who always gets away."
All because this young black male happens to be walking through his neighborhood that night. Nothing more and nothing less.
But because Zimmerman didn't go around calling black people "n____rs" or declaring his hatred towards black people, that exonorates all racial components of his actions on the night of Trayvon Martin's killing?Star Member Dreamer Tatum (7,679 posts)
35. He wasn't on trial for racist profiling
in fact he wasn't on trial for racial ANYTHING.
You have yet to demonstrate that the SHOOTING was racially motivated (I know, that's heresy! OF COURSE IT WAS!!! Except...that part isn't totally clear).
You're using evidence of his OPINIONS and BIAS to establish racial motive for the KILLING. I'm saying that if you're doing that, then why won't you consider damning Twitter posts to do the same for Lane? I mean, YOU'RE USING ZIMMERMAN'S QUOTES TO ESTABLISH HIS RACIAL BIAS. Why wouldn't you use THE SHOOTER'S PUBLISHED QUOTES to do the same?
(I know the answer already. The question is rhetorical.)
08-23-2013, 03:24 PM
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Hey lurking DUmmies:
You still don't know anything about the Zimmerman case. Educate yourself. Take this exam.
08-23-2013, 03:45 PM
- Join Date
- May 2008
It shouldn't, but the bias and the ignorance is stunning.
Star Member librechik (25,289 posts)
36. this notion depends on the assumption that African Americans must all hate and want to kill whites
do they ever think past that to why that might be? Don't they have every right to hate the white race? (unlike the reverse, BTW)
Whenever a (rare, btw) example of black violence on whites happens the RW propaganda machine grips its jaws on it and never gives it up, no matter how much subsequent facts debunk them. It's a deliberate racial "tarring" on it's own, pretending to justify their hatred of blacks. It's deliberately provocative and catastrophizing to drum up fear.
08-23-2013, 03:47 PM
Lets see... Slavery ended more then 150 years ago, but they have a right to hate us. They kill us, today, at a rate of 14:1, and we don't have a right to hate them?
Just to clarify, there is no reason to hate period, but I was just pointing out the persons idiocy.
In hockey, it means you have to sit in the penalty box for five minutes.
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