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  1. #11  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    Why is it so difficult to believe that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons?
    Ask yourself who it benefits.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


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  2. #12  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Prove what, that Swann's a shill for Assad? You already proved that with your first post with one of his videos, where he presented an Alawite as a neutral observer of the Assad regime. Remember? No? Click here: http://www.conservativeunderground.c...l=1#post555351 His "witness" eventually admitted that he was an Alawite, which means that he's part of Assad's clan. Swann didn't pick up on that, which means that he's either hopelessly ignorant of the facts in Syria, or he's a shill for Assad. I'll accept either answer, but neither of them gives him any credibility.

    Or do you want me to prove that Saddam's WMDs are in Syria? Sorry, but the best that I can do is attribute the open source information, which I've done, but given that the open sources are pretty reliable, I'm willing to go along with them.

    Prove that the Assad regime was the source of the WMD attack? Again, the delivery system was heavy artillery. Assad has it, the rebels don't; they have small arms and not much of that. Therefore, the odds are that the regime used the WMD. Now, if somebody credible provides proof that the rebels did it, then I'll revisit the issue, but that hasn't happened yet.

    As for being quiet, sorry, but I just checked my rating scheme and you aren't in my chain of command, so I'll decline your order.
    Sorry Ody....but the military doesn't have any "evidence" that's better than the open source information on either Saddam's chemical slight of hand into Syria or what's occurring now. Either that or their not sharing it. Their problem is people think it's bullshit. If so they would have come out and said so.....just like they did with the Colin Powell fiasco.

    You think somehow you are the only one on this board to had previous experience with need to know intelligence. For cripes sake, John Kerry is stumbling bumbling his way through this with "vague" bullshit. So if the intelligence is out there, I'm pretty confidant a regular staff officer hasn't been made privy to that Top Secret info.

    It's a different world today with the advent of free information being shared in real time by people who are actually there. Welcome to the the new age.

    You believe what you wish to believe but your MO is to attack the guy putting out the information instead of attacking the premise. You lose that way. Swann's evidence is as credible as the shill your pushing. And he's one of the best investigative journalists out there. Put up you info or shut up as they say is good advice. This administration has no clothes with this tripe.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


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  3. #13  
    Senior Member ReinMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    Sarin itself only lasts for a few weeks while created. Its components are usually stored, and then mixed when it seems it's time to use the gas.
    Sarin is usually deployed as a binary munition. The two stable precursor components are stored in compartments in the warhead separated by a partition that's destroyed by the acceleration of being fired (as in a shell) or released (as in a bomb). Rotation on route to target mixes the precursors and the chemical reaction creates the final product.

    Then a bursting charge aerosolizes the chemical at the target.

    Most of the nasty nerve agents (Sarin, VX, Tabun, etc.) are just as dangerous on the skin as they are inhaled.

    VX is particularly nasty: a single atomized droplet absorbed through the skin can cause death in 15 min or so...

    Makes me chuckle when I see people fitting gas masks, and drilling to put them on while wearing shorts and a t-shirt....
    We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.
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  4. #14  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReinMan View Post
    Sarin is usually deployed as a binary munition. The two stable precursor components are stored in compartments in the warhead separated by a partition that's destroyed by the acceleration of being fired (as in a shell) or released (as in a bomb). Rotation on route to target mixes the precursors and the chemical reaction creates the final product.

    Then a bursting charge aerosolizes the chemical at the target.

    Most of the nasty nerve agents (Sarin, VX, Tabun, etc.) are just as dangerous on the skin as they are inhaled.

    VX is particularly nasty: a single atomized droplet absorbed through the skin can cause death in 15 min or so...

    Makes me chuckle when I see people fitting gas masks, and drilling to put them on while wearing shorts and a t-shirt....
    which is why everyone's bs detector should be going off when viewing the administrations Numero uno evidence which is the great Videos of the attack.....presented by the Islamic propaganda machine.
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  5. #15  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    Ask yourself who it benefits.
    Iran, obviously. Assad doesn't act without Iranian approval. Ask yourself why Iran would want Assad to use chemical weapons, and you have the answer. Iran gets to use Assad as a canary in the WMD coal mine to test US resolve. A weak response shows that they can continue their nuclear program with nothing to fear from us. If we do react decisively, the Iran knows that they have to reevaluate their strategy, but it costs them little to find out. That's their strategic thinking. Assad's position is more tactical. He has a shortage of manpower, which is why he is using fighters from Hezbollah and Iran. The opposition outnumbers his forces but lacks the weapons to take him down, but as more of his conscripts defect with their weapons, that balance is likely to change. Assad's choices are to commit his dwindling forces in attrition battles, or to try to use the superior weapons at his disposal, which includes a massive WMD stockpile, to reduce the rebels' numbers. He learned this from his father, who used massed artillery to destroy the city of Hama during a previous Muslim Brotherhood insurgency. The downside is the threat of US action, but he has calculated that Obama will do nothing, or at least nothing significant. Assad knows that the Russians and Chinese will block any action at the UN, and that our NATO allies are not going to get involved in another of Obama's pointless mini-wars after seeing how Libya turned out. So, Assad's calculation is whether the risk of a highly unlikely unilateral, decisive US action outweighs the almost certain benefits of culling his enemies with a nerve gas strike. He clearly guessed that Obama will not act, at least not effectively.

    Oh, and remember one other thing, which is that Obama doesn't want to bomb Syria. Bombing Syria means that his reset policies have failed. Obama has painted himself into a corner with tough rhetoric that he n't prepared to back up, hence all of the hemming and hawing over whether or not this strike constitutes a red line (as opposed to scarlet or cadmium, or whether the line is actually a line, or more of a curve, etc.,). He may order a therapeutic air strike, whose sole purpose is to make him look tough, while not altering the situation on the ground, and claim that he has protected the lives of Syrians, but everyone this side of MSNBC will see through this. And, the downside of that is that it plays to Assad as well, as he can claim to have survived the wrath of the US, which only strengthens his hand. Unless Obama actually commits to a serious use of force to weaken Assad's hold on power, which is unlikely, then Assad benefits from his use of WMDs, and Iran sees that they can continue their nuclear program without fear of any action by by the US.

    Whether or not you think bombing Syria makes sense (and I don't), that is the cost benefit analysis that motivated Assad and the Iranian mullahs.
    --Odysseus
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Ben Swann again? Really?

    Also, the source that stated that Saddam's WMD stockpiles were shipped to Syria was the Chief of Staff of the IDF, Gen Yaalon. In addition, there is precedent. During the first Gulf War, Saddam sent his air force into Iran to prevent massive losses; he had a history of shipping high-value weapons to safe havens, and Yaalon is a credible source. This was further corroborated by former Iraqi general Georges Sada, who claimed that Saddam had ordered all of his stockpiles to be moved to Syria in 2002 in advance of the arrival of weapon inspectors. Sada claimed that Iraqi relief operations for the June 4 Zeyzoun Dam disaster in Syria were used as a pretext for the air convoys..
    Let me make perfectly clear that I don't dispute this as a possibility. All I'm saying is that I don't really know, but the evidence that Saddam moved them is a highly probable.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Hey...imagine some common sense coming off the Bill O'Reilly show.
    Exactly what I've been saying.



    Not from O'Reilly mind you.
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


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  8. #18  
    Sonnabend
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    Why is it so difficult to believe that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons?
    It isnt. Did he get them from Saddam....I dont know. Maybe. Maybe he sent them precursors.
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member DumbAss Tanker's Avatar
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    VX is actually extremely stable and lasts for many, many years if stored in airtight, opaque containers. As Ody correctly notes, it is a somewhat more difficult matter to get it to aerosolize, usually requiring either an explosive burster charge or a sprayer (The latter not being used militarily due to the obvious problems with it). It's not actually a gas, but a liquid that has to be turned into an aerosol (A mist of fine droplets) to be delivered. GB, the nonpersistent equivalent, behaves more like a gas, which is of course why it isn't persistent.
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  10. #20  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DumbAss Tanker View Post
    VX is actually extremely stable and lasts for many, many years if stored in airtight, opaque containers.
    I think they have Tupperware.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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