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  1. #31  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    It's not the union that designs curricula. It's the state Boards of Education, and they approve all kinds of travesties like this. With Common Core, it's going to be even more of a nightmare because it will be the DOE calling the shots from Washington and the indoctrination will then be out in the open. The university departments of education go along with the curricula and make arguments for even more loopy changes.

    The union does a lot of crap, no question. But what it does not do is dictate curricula. Politicians, government, and private foundations (like Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation) do that.
    The unions are part of the education establishment. They dictate who administers the schools through their manipulation of campaign finances and if they didn't approve of the curricula, it wouldn't be there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    I don't see the problem. Doesn't the holocaust museum do something similar?
    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    The Holocaust Museum in LA has you go through a museum, but they don't make you re-enact a gas chamber scene.
    Except for one unfortunate incident in the elevators on Burrito Surprise day, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    He shouldn't be hearing it from adults while on an educational field trip.
    We shouldn't white-wash history (ever), but not every history lesson is appropriate for role-playing games. The Museum of African American History in Detroit has some displays that show things like the size of the hold in a slave ship, with concrete sculptures of human figures in it to illustrate the conditions the people were subjected to-that seems far more appropriate for teaching kids about the horrors of slavery than calling them names and actually acting out slavery.
    Exactly. We don't have kids reenact Roman orgies (at least, not until the undergraduate level, or at least until their first faculty mixer). Some things are just not appropriate for reenacting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arroyo_Doble View Post
    I don't know who you hang out with but in my circle of friends, blacks never mention that stuff. There's some talk about how absurd The Help was and how Jay Z (some entertainer ... I don't know) needs to start acting like wealthy people are supposed to act with regards to charity .... something about Breaking Bad but that really isn't about black people .... the collapse of the Rangers these last two years .... no .... nothing about slavery except maybe when we talk about Toni Morrison's work or I have a few too many beers and regale my guests with the greatness that was General James Longstreet.
    Slavery is much more likely to be raised in discussion by white liberals as a means of silencing white non-liberals or to feign solidarity with black voters.


    “Look at what they [Republicans] value, and look at their budget. And look what they’re proposing. [Romney] said in the first 100 days, he’s going to let the big banks write their own rules — unchain Wall Street,” Biden said a rally in Danville, Va. “They’re going to put y’all back in chains.”
    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz2fpE0z5lu



    Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) upped the rhetorical ante this morning by comparing opponents of health care reform to conservatives who tried to block emancipation and equal rights -- prompting the Republican national chairman to question his sanity.

    Speaking on the floor of the Senate, Reid blasted GOP leaders who have urged Democrats opt for a slower, incremental approach to reform instead of the mega-bill the majority hopes to push through the Senate by Christmas

    Reid started by mimicking Republicans whom he claims have said: "'Slow down, stop everything, let's start over."

    "You think you've heard these same excuses before? You're right," he continued. "In this country...there were those who dug in their heels and said, 'Slow down, it's too early. Let's wait. Things aren't bad enough' " - about slavery.



    Clinton's 'plantation' remark draws fire
    Wednesday, January 18, 2006; Posted: 3:37 a.m. EST (08:37 GMT)
    Manage Alerts | What Is This? WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sen. Hillary Clinton drew criticism Tuesday for a Martin Luther King Jr. Day speech in which she told a mostly black audience at a Harlem church that Republican leaders have run the House "like a plantation" and the Bush administration will go down as "one of the worst" in U.S. history.
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/...on.plantation/


    Chuck Todd: Obama aide says there would be slavery if Lincoln governed today
    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/03/ch...#ixzz2fpHeGx98


    Quote Originally Posted by RobJohnson View Post
    It's amazing how the term racist has an ever expanding definition in the eyes of the world.
    It's still just another word for someone who is winning an argument with a liberal.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    The unions are part of the education establishment. They dictate who administers the schools through their manipulation of campaign finances and if they didn't approve of the curricula, it wouldn't be there.
    You are absolutely wrong here, Ody. Unions do not create the curricula. In fact, unions don't give a damn about the curricula one way or the other. They care about pay, benefits, and political candidates who support their agenda in regard to pay/benefits. The union bosses at the top care about their own power and their own enrichment. They don't give a damn about what's being taught--only that the money keeps flowing. The union goes on strike if pay and benefits are being affected. They have NEVER gone on strike about curricula.

    The people who care about the propaganda in the classroom are located in state government (and the lobbying groups (like LGBT) that put pressure on state boards of ed) and, now, the Federal DOE, which has decided to destroy real education entirely. There's a lot of things you can hate the unions for: curriculum choices are not one of them.
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  3. #33  
    LTC Member Odysseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    You are absolutely wrong here, Ody. Unions do not create the curricula. In fact, unions don't give a damn about the curricula one way or the other. They care about pay, benefits, and political candidates who support their agenda in regard to pay/benefits. The union bosses at the top care about their own power and their own enrichment. They don't give a damn about what's being taught--only that the money keeps flowing. The union goes on strike if pay and benefits are being affected. They have NEVER gone on strike about curricula.

    The people who care about the propaganda in the classroom are located in state government (and the lobbying groups (like LGBT) that put pressure on state boards of ed) and, now, the Federal DOE, which has decided to destroy real education entirely. There's a lot of things you can hate the unions for: curriculum choices are not one of them.


    Actually, there have been teachers' strikes over curricula. There was one in Bellevue, Washington, over it in 2008:


    Bellevue teachers go on strike
    http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2008151953_webbellevue01m.html

    Bellevue teachers announced tonight they would strike over pay and curriculum issues, meaning the first day of classes for 16,000 students — scheduled for Tuesday — will be canceled.

    By Seattle Times staff
    ERIKA SCHULTZ / THE SEATTLE TIMES

    Bellevue teachers announced tonight they would strike over pay and curriculum issues, meaning the first day of classes for 16,000 students — scheduled for Tuesday — will be canceled.

    Negotiations with the school district reached an impasse over the weekend, and a mediator had been called in to help. In June, the teachers had authorized a strike for the start of school if a new contract was not in place.

    The union represents some 1,200 teachers, counselors and other classroom specialists.

    The teachers acknowledge they are among the highest paid in the region, but say salaries have not kept pace with those in other districts.

    The district offered a 1.5 percent pay raise for the school year; combined with a state cost-of-living raise, their actual salary would have increased by 6.6 percent.

    District officials Saturday asked for the mediator from the Public Employment Relations Commission.

    Teachers also want more control over curriculum. The district offered a new proposal in recent days to allow teachers to modify or supplement the standardized curriculum, but it requires teachers who replace lessons to submit changes to a review panel for possible inclusion in the curriculum.

    As the teachers met this evening at Odle Middle School to discuss the plans, about 80 parents and students stood outside chanting, "We support our teachers." Several said they would join the teachers on picket lines Tuesday.
    Note that the teachers were the highest paid in the region, by their own admission. This wasn't about pay, but about control of the curriculum.

    In Chicago in 2012, there was a threatened teachers' strike over the curriculum:

    At its core, the strike is nothing less than a faceoff between two conflicting visions of public education. More important than economics or the teacher evaluations, said Sharkey, are “pedagogical issues” like small class sizes; a curriculum of language, art, music, and physical education for all students; and nursing and social-work services inside schools to address the many needs that poor students bring to the schoolhouse door—and that hurt academic performance when left unaddressed.
    http://www.labornotes.org/2012/09/behind-chicago-teachers-strike

    In Britain, unions are threatening a strike over curriculum reforms right now:


    Irate teachers threaten 'civil disobedience'

    NUT conference delegates voice resentment over levels of criticism and curriculum reforms
    Jessica Shepherd
    http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/mar/30/teachers-strike-action-curriculum-reforms
    The Observer, Saturday 30 March 2013 15.42 EDT

    A growing grassroots movement of teachers threatened "civil disobedience" on Saturday in protest at education reforms.

    Classroom teachers at the National Union of Teachers' annual conference in Liverpool told the Observer their profession had reached a turning point in its relations with Michael Gove, the education secretary, and calls for radical action were widespread. Last week the Association of Teachers and Lecturers overwhelmingly carried a motion of no confidence in Gove, in the first motion of its kind against an education secretary in its history. NUT members will vote on a similar motion on Sunday. Teachers have described Gove as showing "abject failure to improve education or treat teachers, parents and pupils with respect".

    They claim that for almost three years, since the coalition government came to power, they have been subjected to unprecedented levels of criticism and repeatedly been undermined. Teachers also argue that Gove is trying to change everything about their jobs, from the curriculum to exams and league table measurements, and from pay structures to their pensions and the way inspectors judge them. There is fierce resentment that, as staff grapple with the changes and put in extra hours, ministers describe them as "enemies of promise".
    I think that you are underestimating the unions. In most cases, they don't have to strike over curricula. The kinds of politicians that they support advance curricula that maintain the left's political control of the schools. If the unions were neutral about the curricula, then there would be far more variety in the classroom, but there isn't. Why else would the teaching establishment routinely go in for fads that have been shown to have a severe impact on education outcomes, but hardly ever try anything proven to work? Look at the resistance to phonics, for an example. If this were not a deliberate policy, then you'd see educational improvements in public schools on occasion, and those improvements would justify the unions' demands for higher pay and better working conditions for the rank and file, since they would be reinforcing success. Why, then, do they oppose anything that could work? The education establishment, which consists of teachers' unions, politicians and administrators, has an interest in maintaining a victimization mindset among poorer students and parents; it has to keep them ignorant, or they will realize what is being done to them.

    Look at the OP. If this field trip hadn't been so poorly conceived and executed, we'd never have heard about it; it would have simply perpetuated the mindset of victimhood in the students without raising any flags. It's only because the event was so over the top and offensive, not to us, but to black kids and their parents, that somebody protested. This was meant to teach kids that the system is racist and stacked against them, and that their only hope was to stay in lockstep with the people who supposedly care about them.
    --Odysseus
    Sic Hacer Pace, Para Bellum.

    Before you can do things for people, you must be the kind of man who can get things done. But to get things done, you must love the doing, not the people!
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  4. #34  
    Drive-by Poster ABC in Georgia's Avatar
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    Woe be to all who enter into debate with Ody ...

    Without first covering his/her behind.

    Those whoopings can hurt!
    American By Choice ~ 1980
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  5. #35  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    This was meant to teach kids that the system is racist and stacked against them, and that their only hope was to stay in lockstep with the people who supposedly care about them.
    And keep them down. In short, the Democratic party is The Man the blacks are so fearful of. I hate to make a potentially racist soliloquy but the black community are to the Democrats what the flying monkeys were to the Wicked Witch of the West. Only the blacks are unaware that the Democrats are holding the golden cap.
    Last edited by NJCardFan; 09-25-2013 at 01:26 AM.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  6. #36  
    Politically tired. Lanie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    That would mean that you are colorblind. Which, apparently, is racist.
    First of all, if an employer or somebody else is denying opportunities to people because of their race, then they're not "colorblind."

    Second, I think we can get to know each other as a race and culture (while respecting a lot of it) without it turning into "seeing them as a black person." I do think it's important to learn more and understand parts of a culture or a subculture because it leads out to less misunderstandings. I think it can also lead out to the two groups learning from each other and eventually adapting some of the good parts.
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