Mathew Shepard story was a fake.

[Elspeth]

Elspeth, I don't actually know what your problem is but you are indeed an idiot if you think that anti-gay violence is "general urban violence". You sound like the bunch who dismiss black on white crime as being generated by poverty, social justice issues, or income disparity. In short, you're like a Duer.

Nova,

The fact that you have to revert to personal attacks, yet again, means you have no logical leg to stand on.

You need to realize that you're losing this one. You may believe it's ok for the GLBT activists to take a drug-fueled crime in the gay community and fake a story about a "homophobic" attack in order to get an agenda rushed through the legal system. In other words, a blatant public LIE pounded into the American consciousness is ok if it benefits you personally. The rest of us beg to differ.

And I'll say it again: if the murder of gay males by homophobic Christians was so common, then why didn't the GLBT activists bring a real case of this nature forward? Why did they have to fake a case?

[RobJohnson]

Good response.


Incidentally, MLK was not perfect and there have been many attacks on him, some justified (he cheated on his wife).

I saw somebody post somewhere a thing about how Rosa Parks was involved in a civil rights group prior to the bus incident that led to her arrest, as if that somehow taints her story of being too tired after working all day to give up her bus seat to some crackers.

MLK and Parks were both Commies!

[RobJohnson]

Matthew Shepard is not comparable to the others.

• Rosa Parks was no innocent bystander who needed a seat on a bus; she was, however, a political activist (NAACP) for the cause.
• George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were not "clean" but they were forces behind the revolution and were Presidents.
• Martin Luther King may have sins in his past, but he was a political activist and a leader.

Matthew Shepard was not anything. Not a political activist, not a leader, not involved in any cause. He was a cheap, small time meth dealer, who had sex with some of his customers. That's it.

The issue in this case is not that Matthew Shepard had a sin in his past; the issue is that Matthew Shepard was completely fictionalized in order to push ahead a gay rights agenda.




Your (logical) points in order:

1. The primary issue in the gay community was "to set a national example" based on a lie. This wasn't a gay bashing case. Shepard wasn't beaten and killed because he was gay. He was a meth dealer killed by a customer who needed a fix. The GLBT community activists LIED about who this guy was to make a case about gay bashing. The killer was bisexual--part of the community and known at gay bars. What you really had in this case was a community-internal murder which you blamed on the straight community. If the activists wanted to talk about gay bashing, why couldn't they find a real victim of it?

2. The "homosexual panic defense" could have been immediately put to rest if the gay bartenders who knew the murderer had testified that he was a regular at gay bars and in the gay community. At that point, a "gay panic" defense falls apart completely. Here again, if you want to stop a particular kind of defense from being used, find a REAL case that isn't a completely fabricated fiction.

3. This crime actually was given MORE justice than most killings of meth dealers. Very rarely does the nation rally around the cause of punishing someone who killed their drug connection.




Then you find a real case. You don't make one up for the purpose of political theater.

Well said.

[RobJohnson]

Feel free to bring any facts established at trial and we'll discuss them. Right now, you're hanging out with the Trayvon Martin bunch, willing to believe anything which confirms your biases.

Matthew Shepard's story reminds me of what the media did with Travyon's.

[RobJohnson]

So to you its ok to be dishonest to push a perverted agenda? thats good to know. Its also good to know integrity is still alive and well.

It reminds me of DU. "Fake but accurate."

[RobJohnson]

The fact that attacks on gay men and women were occurring around the same time speaks more to general urban violence than to specific hate crime.

NYC like a lot of large cities has a lot of crime. I agree with Elspeth. It had nothing to do with a person being gay or a woman, everyone was a target then. Luckily they had a mayor that was able to eliminate some of the crime and clean up the city. I wish Chicago would do the same.

[Novaheart]

Matthew Shepard's story reminds me of what the media did with Travyon's.

Then you aren't really thinking that out. The media portrayed Trayvon as a typical victim of white on black violence and proof that it happens enough to justify a continuation of the construct in social discourse. We know that is false. We know that statistically blacks are much more likely to attack whites.

How many links can you find to gay on straight violence? How many cases of a gay guy claiming he beat some woman's head in because she came on to him? How often does the FBI bean counter say that straight people are attacked for being straight?

[Novaheart]

It reminds me of DU. "Fake but accurate."

Elspeth and Ody are alleging much more than an after the fact declaration of expediency. They maintain that there is some massive gay conspiracy to lie about Mathew Shepard, when in fact you probably can't find a gay person who knew anything other than what was in the mainstream papers about the case. And again, we have the facts as established at trial against some guy we never heard of who has a book to sell.

[Elspeth]

They maintain that there is some massive gay conspiracy to lie about Mathew Shepard, when in fact you probably can't find a gay person who knew anything other than what was in the mainstream papers about the case.

You are trying to win an argument by lying about what people have said.

Once again, GLBT activists took a GLBT community-internal drug-related matter and turned it into a fake story of a (non-existent) straight male homophobe killing a gay victim in a "hate crime." The "hate crime" simply never happened. Yet, the GLBT activists papered the media with press releases about this alleged "hate crime" , got national coverage, and furthered their agenda.

Gays not involved directly in activist circles most likely did not know what was going on. The gay journalist who went in search of the Matthew Shepard story did not know what was going on until he went to Laramie and got the full story.

No one has claimed anything else, Nova. So don't lie about what other posters are saying or doing.


You still haven't answered the main questions which is why, if homophobic murders of innocent gay men are so common, the GLBT activists had to take a gay meth dealer murdered by his known bisexual lover-customer (who had also killed another man that same night while looking for a fix) and turn it into a straight-on-gay hate crime. Why take a lie national if there are so many such real murders to choose from?

[Novaheart]

You are trying to win an argument by lying about what people have said.

Once again, GLBT activists took a GLBT community-internal drug-related matter and turned it into a fake story of a (non-existent) straight male homophobe killing a gay victim in a "hate crime." The "hate crime" simply never happened. Yet, the GLBT activists papered the media with press releases about this alleged "hate crime" , got national coverage, and furthered their agenda.

Gays not involved directly in activist circles most likely did not know what was going on. The gay journalist who went in search of the Matthew Shepard story did not know what was going on until he went to Laramie and got the full story.

No one has claimed anything else, Nova. So don't lie about what other posters are saying or doing.


You still haven't answered the main questions which is why, if homophobic murders of innocent gay men are so common, the GLBT activists had to take a gay meth dealer murdered by his known bisexual lover-customer (who had also killed another man that same night while looking for a fix) and turn it into a straight-on-gay hate crime. Why take a lie national if there are so many such real murders to choose from?

just saw this:


http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/10...gay-mat/196229

Debunking Stephen Jimenez's Effort To De-Gay Matthew Shepard's Murder


........

Anonymous or simply unreliable sources are at the heart of Jimenez's effort to de-gay Shepard's murder. An anonymous "Wyoming law enforcement official" told him that "Shepard's murder had nothing to do with his sexual preferences." Jimenez doesn't elaborate on the extent of this official's involvement with the case, but he assures readers that the official's claim was "an assertion I would come to hear often during interviews." Among the others repeating that assertion was Glenn Duncan, a disbarred attorney who lost his law license after allegations of misusing clients' funds. Duncan agreed to an interview with Jimenez on the condition "that someone in the media finally tells the truth about Shepard's murder."

In fact, Jimenez relates, "[t]he more time I spent in Laramie ... the more frequently I heard rumors of a cover-up around the murder." While unfounded gossip is hardly unheard of in the aftermath of a horrific crime, Jimenez is seemingly convinced that these rumormongers are on to something.

The "hidden truths" Jimenez claims to uncover are that McKinney and Shepard were regular methamphetamine users deeply implicated in the drug trade, and that, contrary to what McKinney (the principal attacker), Henderson, prosecutors, and Shepard's friends and family have always said, the two men actually knew each other before the night of the attack. What's more, Jimenez says, the two had had sex before - suggesting that homophobia couldn't possibly have been a factor in Shepard's murder.

The principal source for the latter claim is Thomas "Doc" O'Connor, a Laramie chauffeur and operator of the Lincoln Escort Service. O'Connor told Jimenez that one night, McKinney and two other men were fooling around in the back seat of his limousine, and that "Matt may have been one of the guys in back [of the limo] with Aaron. ... I can't say for sure."

McKinney has denied that he's bisexual and there's no evidence that establishes a link - sexual or not - between him and Shepard prior to the night he and Henderson left a Laramie bar with him and savagely beat him in an open field. Still, Jimenez persists in his claim. "Ten different sources," Jimenez writes, "have acknowledged that they were in the company of both men together, or that they learned from Matthew himself about his relationship with Aaron." Considering that his sources were primarily anonymous and struggling with meth addictions, it's unclear why Jimenez considers them credible - particularly when both the killers and the victim's close circle emphatically deny any connection between the two.

..........