10-17-2013, 12:07 PM
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
Let the Dems have their tax hikes the GOP said. We'll stop them on the debt ceiling they said.
LIED TO AGAIN I say!!!
10-17-2013, 02:52 PM"Today, [the American voter] chooses his rulers as he buys bootleg whiskey, never knowing precisely what he is getting, only certain that it is not what it pretends to be." - H.L. Mencken
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Northern Virginia
10-17-2013, 03:03 PM
Numbers or not ...
Lord Obama doesn't know the meaning of the word "negotiate."
It is not in his vocabulary.Considered a black sheep by my mixed-bag of Liberal nutcase family members ... but still love them all anyway!!!
American By Choice ~ 1980
10-17-2013, 06:30 PMConsidered a black sheep by my mixed-bag of Liberal nutcase family members ... but still love them all anyway!!!
American By Choice ~ 1980
10-18-2013, 11:08 AM
The current GOP are an embarrassment. All We get is capitulation, negotiation and passivity. They have completely prostrated to the far left so often it would be the extreme exception for them to not do so. This is its trajectory now. 0bama and Reid and the Media can count on it. And they do. To hell with the Constitution.
The continuing resolution and the debt ceiling were the ONLY real opportunities to make the case. Theres no other way congress can exercise its article 1 power over the purse except during the continuing resolution and debt ceiling process. There is no other occasion. This is by design.
So, rather than attacking a hand full of Senators and Congressmen that had the courage to make the case against this imperial presidencies fiats, there should have been a loud united chorus on Fox, on TownHall, on National Review, everywhere throughout the land making the case. But the only ones vigorously attacked by the GOP (Boehner, McConnell, Kelly Ayotte, Bob Corker, McCain, Graham, Saxby, Toomey and all the rest) are the constitutional conservatives. Yet, WE ARE the people. Doesn't seem to matter anymore does it?
Congress has officially ceded its power over the purse to the executive branch. The president now rules by fiat when he chooses to, and theres no effective opposition. He tells congress to raise the debt ceiling, to pay what he tells them to pay or he'll push the nation into a default. Even though the nation doesnt have to go into a default. And besides that, now he'll punish the people. He threatened not to pay Social Security retirees, Military retirees, disability recipients, and federal retirees. The elderly and the military were the prime targets for his threats and, despite the fact that more than eighty percent of the government was still functioning, he directed that national parks be closed. Most dramatically in Washington, D.C. where veterans of World War II and the Vietnam War were denied access to the memorials to their service. Because he doesn't have to face us in another election.
Boehner and McConnell are an embarrassment now. I guess they could be saying "Constitution? We don't need no stinkin' Constitution ...". Doesnt really matter what we say, does it?
Liberalism is just communism sold by the drink.
10-18-2013, 06:40 PM
There is no debt ceiling in place, and here’s why
After 16 days of a partial government shutdown, the House and Senate finally, on Wednesday night, agreed on legislation to fund the government.
And according to almost every report, the funding legislation, which was quickly signed into law by President Barack Obama, also raised the nation’s debt ceiling.
Except, that’s not exactly true.
What actually happened was that Congress voted to effectively suspend the debt ceiling from Oct. 17, 2013, through Feb. 7, 2014. In other words, they didn't raise the debt ceiling ― they eliminated it altogether until Feb 7 of next year.
As it turns out, this is the second time this year that Congress has essentially turned over the keys on debt spending. And there’s every reason to believe it will do so again when both sides pick up this fight in a few months.
Allowing the White House to raise the debt ceiling without congressional approval is a move reportedly favored by Obama, but conservative critics say it will lead to disastrous and unchecked increases in spending.
In 1917, Congress created the debt ceiling, technically known as the Second Liberty Bond Act.
Before the first debt ceiling was created, Congress has to approve each individual bond and increase in national debt. Passage of the first debt ceiling began the slow march of handing over power to the executive branch, allowing the president to issue bonds without congressional approval. The only requirement is that the total amount of bonds issued stay within the debt ceiling amount mandated by Congress.
But during the 2012 debt ceiling debate, Congress took this handover of power one step further by giving President Obama a set period of time to increase the debt ceiling at his discretion. The No Budget, No Pay Act of 2013 suspended the debt ceiling from Feb. 4, 2013, to May, 19, 2013. After that, the actual debt ceiling was raised, but only enough to allow the government to safely pay its debts through October 17.
As the Daily Caller explains, now most Americans effectively have no idea how much debt the government will accrue between now and the February deadline. And without a debt ceiling, Congress and the White House could conceivably raise the debt without limit.
The Washington Post explains that suspending the debt ceiling actually stems from an idea floated by Mitch McConnell back in 2011. Under McConnell’s proposal, the president would have the sole authority to raise the debt ceiling. Congress would then vote to approve or disapprove of the change. If it voted to disapprove, the president could then veto the disapproval. And as with any presidential veto, Congress would then have to pass a two-thirds majority vote to overturn the veto and effectively block raising the debt ceiling.
Regardless of which path Congress and the White House take, they’re likely to be wrestling with massive debt for a long time to come.
Technically, the U.S. has carried a national debt every year going back to 1835. The dollar amount continues to grow each year, even as it has become a smaller percentage of the overall federal budget in recent years. The federal debt reached its peak as a percentage of the U.S. budget during World War II.
That fact has led several respected economists, including former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, to question why we even have a debt ceiling.
"Why do we have a debt limit in the first place? We appropriate funds, we have tax law, and one reasonably adept at arithmetic can calculate what the debt change is going to be,” Greenspan said during an April, 2011, appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”
“The Congress and the president have signed legislation predetermining what that number is,” Greenspan continued. “Why we need suspenders and belts is something I've never understood.”It's not how old you are, it's how you got here.
It's been a long road and not all of it was paved.
A man is but a product of his thoughts. What he thinks, he becomes. Gandhi
Originally Posted by Carol
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