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  1. #1 Biden's 14 Lies at the debate. 
    Sonnabend
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    14 lies.

    Biden's 14 Lies

    Fresh from the McCain people.

    JOE BIDEN’S 14 LIES TONIGHT

    1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

    2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

    3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

    4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

    5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

    6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

    7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

    8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

    9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

    10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

    11. IRAQ: Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

    12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

    13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

    14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
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  2. #2  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    And the press is covering this where?
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    The number that he threw out several times that baffled me was.....

    Employers pay an average of $12,000 per year for each employees health insurance. An individual health policy doesn't cost that much. There is no way that group coverage is that expensive.

    We had a good time watching the debate. Me working in insurance and her in banking. My wife said she didn't see where Obama was that bad before the debate. Then Biden opened his trap saying that under Obama's plan that bankruptcy court would be able to not only adjust your interest rate but also your principle. I told her welcome to socialist Obamastan.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  4. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    The number that he threw out several times that baffled me was.....

    Employers pay an average of $12,000 per year for each employees health insurance. An individual health policy doesn't cost that much. There is no way that group coverage is that expensive.

    We had a good time watching the debate. Me working in insurance and her in banking. My wife said she didn't see where Obama was that bad before the debate. Then Biden opened his trap saying that under Obama's plan that bankruptcy court would be able to not only adjust your interest rate but also your principle. I told her welcome to socialist Obamastan.
    I'm not sure either. In 2005 the cost was $2.59 per employee hour. At 2080 hours per year (the number includes all holidays and vacation days) that would be an employer cost of $5387. Assuming it's risen to even $3.25 per employee hour, the annual cost, $6760, would still be well short of Biden's $12000 number.
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    I'm not sure either. In 2005 the cost was $2.59 per employee hour. At 2080 hours per year (the number includes all holidays and vacation days) that would be an employer cost of $5387. Assuming it's risen to even $3.25 per employee hour, the annual cost, $6760, would still be well short of Biden's $12000 number.
    I just checked ours and the annual cost for family, plus dental, is $7984.80.
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  6. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygirl View Post
    I just checked ours and the annual cost for family, plus dental, is $7984.80.
    Yikes! :eek: I hadn't realized it was that much. Although, when I COBRA'd in 2001 I ended up paying around $600 per month for individual medical and dental.
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygirl View Post
    I just checked ours and the annual cost for family, plus dental, is $7984.80.
    Is that under a group plan or individual?
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygirl View Post
    I just checked ours and the annual cost for family, plus dental, is $7984.80.
    All these rates are going to vary widely, depending on the size of the company. My company has approximately 500 employees in 4 states. The employees supposedly pay half. I just computed that I pay $1225 a year for my health insurance and dental. The rates are higher for families, but don't have those numbers.

    $12,000 is way high, unless it's for a small firm with high risk employees that never shops their insurance plan and gets it from a relative who's trying to get maximum commission.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member LibraryLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    The number that he threw out several times that baffled me was.....

    Employers pay an average of $12,000 per year for each employees health insurance. An individual health policy doesn't cost that much. There is no way that group coverage is that expensive.
    I really don't understand any of this. I have been spoiled with military health insurance for 35 years

    (CBS) It's one of the most explosive and important political charges of the election: "He wants to tax your health benefits," Barack Obama said.

    Obama's charge was that that John McCain wants to tax the health insurance benefits Americans buy through employers, CBS News correspondent Wyatt Andrews reports.

    "That's a $3.6 trillion tax potentially increase on middle class families," Obama said. "That will eventually leave tens of millions of you paying higher taxes."

    John McCain wants a multi-trillion dollar tax on the middle class? Here are the facts.

    Obama has the tax part correct, but the impact on the middle class is exaggerated - most people will see tax cuts.

    McCain has proposed to end one of the largest tax breaks in the entire economy. Some 60 million Americans buy health insurance thru employers tax-free, and McCain would indeed begin to tax the value of the benefit.

    However McCain also proposes to give the money back as a tax credit, $2,500 for individuals, $5,000 for families.

    "Let's give them a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice," McCain said.

    "It's mostly a tax break," said Len Burman of the Tax Policy Center.

    The non-partisan tax policy center says except for the very richest Americans, most people buying insurance will see a tax cut.


    "Families at all income levels would pay lower taxes, at least on average," said Burman. "On average, is about a $1,200 tax cut in 2009."
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  10. #10  
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