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  1. #11  
    Senior Member LibraryLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    The number that he threw out several times that baffled me was.....

    Employers pay an average of $12,000 per year for each employees health insurance. An individual health policy doesn't cost that much. There is no way that group coverage is that expensive.
    I really don't understand any of this. I have been spoiled with military health insurance for 35 years

    (CBS) It's one of the most explosive and important political charges of the election: "He wants to tax your health benefits," Barack Obama said.

    Obama's charge was that that John McCain wants to tax the health insurance benefits Americans buy through employers, CBS News correspondent Wyatt Andrews reports.

    "That's a $3.6 trillion tax potentially increase on middle class families," Obama said. "That will eventually leave tens of millions of you paying higher taxes."

    John McCain wants a multi-trillion dollar tax on the middle class? Here are the facts.

    Obama has the tax part correct, but the impact on the middle class is exaggerated - most people will see tax cuts.

    McCain has proposed to end one of the largest tax breaks in the entire economy. Some 60 million Americans buy health insurance thru employers tax-free, and McCain would indeed begin to tax the value of the benefit.

    However McCain also proposes to give the money back as a tax credit, $2,500 for individuals, $5,000 for families.

    "Let's give them a $5,000 refundable tax credit to go out and get the health insurance of their choice," McCain said.

    "It's mostly a tax break," said Len Burman of the Tax Policy Center.

    The non-partisan tax policy center says except for the very richest Americans, most people buying insurance will see a tax cut.


    "Families at all income levels would pay lower taxes, at least on average," said Burman. "On average, is about a $1,200 tax cut in 2009."
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  2. #12  
    Senior Member LibraryLady's Avatar
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  3. #13  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibraryLady View Post
    I really don't understand any of this. I have been spoiled with military health insurance for 35 years
    Let's just say nobody pays $1000 a month for group coverage. If anyone pays $1000 a month for an individual plan, they're either old and in bad health or just plain stupid.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    Is that under a group plan or individual?
    Group. The cost for the individuals is $364 a month, for family it is $665 a month. It's a pretty decent plan as far as I can tell, although I don't use it much. We only have 1 person on the family plan here though, everyone else is individual.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygirl View Post
    Group. The cost for the individuals is $364 a month, for family it is $665 a month. It's a pretty decent plan as far as I can tell, although I don't use it much. We only have 1 person on the family plan here though, everyone else is individual.
    That's a long way from $12,000 per year.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  6. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    That's a long way from $12,000 per year.
    That's the employee cost. If you add in the employer costs that Philly noted, $7984.80 per annum, you begin to get to the $12000 per year number. As I noted, in 2001 the COBRA cost, which I believe is supposed to be the employer cost plus the employee costs for the existing group policy, was $7200 per year.
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    That's the employee cost. If you add in the employer costs that Philly noted, $7984.80 per annum, you begin to get to the $12000 per year number. As I noted, in 2001 the COBRA cost, which I believe is supposed to be the employer cost plus the employee costs for the existing group policy, was $7200 per year.
    There is no way health insurance on a relaively healthy person, much less under a group plan, costs $12,000 per person per year.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Summary





    State, ZIP: GA , 31790 Effective Date: 10/04/2008 Primary: Male , 43 , Preferred Smoker




    Here is a summary of the individual medical plan options you selected. Please review this information carefully. Simply click "Apply Now" to begin your online application.
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    Plan Details
    Plan: OneDeductible PPO
    Network: GWH
    Deductible: $1,100
    Dental: Plus
    Coinsurance Percentage: 80%
    Coinsurance Out-of-Pocket: $2,000
    Lifetime Maximum: $8,000,000
    Office Copay: None
    Initial Rate Guarantee: 12months
    Dental-Vision Discount Plan: Yes
    Maternity Coverage No Coverage
    Premium Details
    Primary: $434.56
    Lifetime Maximum: $7.00
    SuiteSolutions (Secure: $2,500) $22.95
    Dental: $47.10
    Dental-Vision Discount Plan: $9.95
    HAA Membership Fee (monthly):2 $4.00
    Monthly Premium:1 $525.56
    One-Time Processing Fee: $20.00
    Initial Payment: $545.5
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel Yell View Post
    There is no way health insurance on a relaively healthy person, much less under a group plan, costs $12,000 per person per year.
    I don't know. Those are the numbers. If you look at the link in my original post, you'll note it goes to a major insurance company's own study. I was a bit surprised at Philly's employer numbers, but given the dramatic rise in health care costs, they're certainly possible. Using her numbers, if you add in the employee contribution, you get $12,352 (364*12 + 7984).
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    That's the employee cost. If you add in the employer costs that Philly noted, $7984.80 per annum, you begin to get to the $12000 per year number. As I noted, in 2001 the COBRA cost, which I believe is supposed to be the employer cost plus the employee costs for the existing group policy, was $7200 per year.
    The costs I noted were total employer costs. The $7980 is a far cry from the $12,000 per year. Under McCain's plan, those costs would be taxable to the employee. Assuming that the employee is in a 20% tax bracket, that would cost the employee $1596. McCain's plan would give a $5,000 tax credit to be used towards this, so obviously there would be no net out of pocket for the employee that continues to have employer coverage.

    The employer, on the other hand, would now have to pay payroll taxes on this amount, thereby theoretically increasing the SS benefit for that employee.
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