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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Does the court have the right to compel someone who doesn't think that the government has the right to redefine marriage to provide services to a gay couple?
    I would say no. However the underlying principle of the 1964 Civil Rights Acts is that society's interest in ending discrimination outweighs our right to freedom of association.
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  2. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Would a Jew be compelled to provide a cake for a Nazi Party event? .
    As things are, I would say yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Could a Kosher butcher be compelled to provide pork for the event?
    Bad comparison, because the Kosher butcher doesn't sell port, the bakery does sell wedding cakes. Those cakes have no gender. This baker didn't say , "I don't have a same sex topper." he said he wouldn't make a cake. Cakes is what he does, not pork.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Would a black baker have to provide a cake for the KKK? .
    If the law is equally enforced, then again the answer would be yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    Supposing the gay couple was as contemptuous of religion as you are?
    I understand your complaint. There are two answers to all of this: What is, and what I believe should be. They are not the same. I fully support the right of a businessman to choose his clientele. I always have. It became clear to me in college that the nondiscrimination laws were at odds with the ability of a business to define itself, specifically nightclubs. We have gay nightclubs, gay resorts, gay apartment houses, gay guesthouses all of which would lose their appeal to the gay clientele if they were not exclusively gay (and select straight people). By the same token, my sister and I were very upset that some gay businesses have made a decision to be adults only for no apparent or legal reason. Gay campgrounds for example, are extremely difficult to find where both men and women and children and grandparents are all welcome at the same time.
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  3. #13  
    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odysseus View Post
    They don't choose to not work for gays, the choose not to do wedding cakes for what they consider sham marriages. If a gay couple wanted a cake for their kid's graduation, do you have any doubt that they'd make the cake?

    This decision creates a dangerous precedent. Supposing the baker had been approached by two couples, one straight and one gay, and they only had time to create one cake, would choosing the straight couple be discrimination if it were known that they also disapproved of gay marriage? I don't have a religious objection to gay marriages, but I do have political objections. Does the court have the right to compel someone who doesn't think that the government has the right to redefine marriage to provide services to a gay couple? Would the court have the right to compel that person to provide services to other political agencies that he found objectionable? Would a Jew be compelled to provide a cake for a Nazi Party event? Could a Kosher butcher be compelled to provide pork for the event? Would a black baker have to provide a cake for the KKK? Supposing the gay couple was as contemptuous of religion as you are? Would a devout Christian have to provide a cake if he knew that he had been sought out in order to compel his services, that he was only selected in order to be mocked and ridiculed by the client?

    If the government can compel us to provide services for people whose conduct offends us, then we have no liberty.
    There is precedent. In 2008 ShopRite supermarket in Marlboro, NJ refused to make a cake for a couple's 3 year old because the boy's name was Adolf Hitler. No one compelled the store to make the cake. Worse yet, the child as well as his siblings were taken from the couple by child services. To this day the couple(who have since divorced) do not have custody of their children. Not that I agree with the couple's choice to name their kids after Nazi's but considering my knowledge of child services reuniting children with crack head parents after only a few weeks apart shows the hypocrisy of the department.

    However, color me shocked that to nova, no issue about gays where the gays are ever wrong...ever.
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  4. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post

    However, color me shocked that to nova, no issue about gays where the gays are ever wrong...ever.
    There are two issues here: what is and what ought to be. What is, is that this business was in violation of the law. In my opinion what ought to be is that thhis business ought to be able to exercise freedom of association. So what is your problem?
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member txradioguy's Avatar
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    What is, is that this business was in violation of the law.
    What law?

    Businesses establish rules all the time and reserve the right to refuse service to customers.

    How is this any different?

    And what would your opinion be if this was a bakery that centered to a gay clientele and refused to bake a cake for a straight couple?
    In Memory Of My Friend 1st Sgt. Tim Millsap A Co, 70th Eng. Bn. 3rd Bde 1st AD...K.I.A. 25 April 2005

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    The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.
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  6. #16  
    Senior Ape Articulate_Ape's Avatar
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    I'd do the cake and just do a really poor job of it. They can either buy it or not.
    "Our president delivered his State of the Union message to Congress. That is one of the things his contract calls for -- to tell congress the condition of the country. This message, as I say, is to Congress. The rest of the people know the condition of the country, for they live in it, but Congress has no idea what is going on in America, so the president has to tell 'em." ~ Will Rogers
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  7. #17  
    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Articulate_Ape View Post
    I'd do the cake and just do a really poor job of it. They can either buy it or not.
    Oh please, you would throw poop at them and they would leave before it was finished.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by txradioguy View Post
    What law?
    Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act as amended in 2008
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  9. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novaheart View Post
    Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act as amended in 2008
    Civil disobedience.

    “I became convinced that noncooperation with evil is as much a moral obligation as is cooperation with good.”
    ― Martin Luther King Jr., The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, Jr.

    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/civil-disobedience
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  10. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Civil disobedience.

    “I became convinced that noncooperation with evil is as much a moral obligation as is cooperation with good.”
    ― Martin Luther King Jr., The Autobiography of Martin Luther King, Jr.

    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/civil-disobedience
    Wear yourself out.
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