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  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Adam : try not to die of shock: but: thank you.
    Not gonna die of shock. People can be reasonable. Even here.

    (::ducks and runs from SR's force-choke::)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    I will read through your reply and intend spending some time researching the subject more. Obviously, NJ works in max security, so the issue of non violent offendors would be more apt to medium or low security prisons.
    I honestly have no idea where NJ works, other than some manner of corrections (as opposed to police work, which are separate and distinct professions these days in the U.S.; I'm not sure how they do it down under), and presumably somewhere in the state of New Jersey. Based upon NJ's later post, I gather that he works in some manner of multi-level facility, apparently a jail as opposed to a prison, but I could be misreading that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    One thing I do disagree with you on: No cable TV = no news = no. Whilst they dont need "entertainment" channels, current news and world events is, IMO an essential. They may be in prison, but there is no need to deny them knowledge of what is going on in their country and outside. If a disaster hits and they have family in those areas, they do have a right to know. When / if they are released, knowing how the world has changed does no harm and will help them at least reintegrate into the "world".
    I think that's rather over-stating things. I do not believe in an inmate's "right to know." There is no "right to know" anything in this country. While there are a lot of "sunlight" laws now, which I consider a good thing, I don't have a specific right to know anything, and I'm not even in prison.

    Regardless, AFAIC, someone's "right to know" is addressed by their ability to subscribe to a valid news source. I'll modify that for clarity, though: they may subscribe to as many valid newspapers as they would like: USA Today, WSJ, local paper(s), papers from other towns, etc.

    Lots of people lived for a very long time without television news. Inmates will be just fine without CNN.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Sorry but I dont agree with this. Regardless of supermax or whatever, contact with family should be and must be maintained. You cannot cut someone off like this for years and then not expect some MAJOR psychiatric issues down the line. I accept what supermax is, but some give and take must be provided..example, man comes out of prison to find his entire family dead, family members dead....that news will land on them like a brick wall...and may provoke violent reaction when they learn this news, extreme isolation has a huge number of perils...mental illness, suicide...no. The line has to be drawn, if you will forgive me, between punishment, and "cruel and unusual punishment". No one, including me, disagrees that supermax is for the worst of the worst..but at that same time, punishment that leads to an inmate suicide is tantamount to a death sentence.
    When someone enters a supermax, they are never to come out. It's a one-way ticket. It IS a death sentence. It's just a matter of when.

    I'm simply unwilling to allow people in a supermax to communicate with anyone, even family. Allow me to introduce you to terrorist-assistant Lynne Stweart, who should herself be rotting in a supermax at this very moment, instead of attending dinner parties in TriBeCa. People don't get thrown into a supermax for shits and giggles. These people are SO dangerous that they must be completely cut off from society. If I had my 'druthers, they'd be hauled out back of the courthouse and had a bullet put into their brain, but unfortunately I don't get to make all of the rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    In any case this wont work for the simple reason, they maintain a right to legal counsel. They cannot be denied their right to legal representation. Same with religious stadff, if thery profess a wish to see a chaplain, that also cannot be denied them.
    See above. I have no problem with letting lawyers and clerics meet with inmates, but their communications will be monitored at all times. They're in prison forever; nothing that they say at this point can further incriminate them. I'm not willing to let them have pen-pal groupies who get conjugal visits and write tell-alls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    They may be the barbarians, the monsters...we dont need to be one as well. Punishment, no matter how severe, however merited, however necessary....should also be leavened with compassion. I am no libtard nor a leftist..I simply say that there is a line between punishment and justice.
    No doubt punishment and justice should be measured carefully. I'm not accusing you of being a liberal, a Leftist, or even soft on crime. I'm merely saying that we need to stop being so open-minded that our brains fall out. Prison is not supposed to be fun. Jail is not supposed to be fun. It's supposed to suck. That doesn't mean be cruel or beat inmates or whatever, but it sure as hell doesn't mean coddle them, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Again, thank you for a well reasoned and well written reply.
    Thanks. I try.
    Olde-style, states' rights conservative. Ask if this concept confuses you.
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  2. #32  
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    Sonna doesn't understand the constitution. What one considers cruel and inhuman punishment, another might consider it a blessing. I'd be willing to bet that there are probably a couple million inmates in the world who would give their testicles to be in a US prison. But what happens is that leftist judges and leftist lawyers get together and convolute things. For example, take religion. The 1st amendment guarantees your right to worship as you see fit. Go to prison and you get special treatment. Muslims get special meals during Ramadan and get a huge feast for the Eid. We have to accommodate their needs during Ramadan which includes a separate meal times because they can't eat while the sun is up. Believe me, a vast majority of these people are as much a practicing Muslim as you all are. No other religious group gets this. Jews certainly don't get Seder meals during Passover. At my jail there is a Native American sweat lodge. Another thing with the jailhouse Muslims is that they like to play games to try to get you into trouble. I've gotten written inmate complaints because I dare interrupt their prayers during count time. Well, I wouldn't interrupt them if they didn't get right up to the door to do their prayers to the point where I can't see them. Count time is the most important time of the shift. Count comes before death and I'm not making that up. So if you're purposely hiding yourself and claiming you're doing it in the name of your religion doesn't fly with me. You know what time count is. They are static counts that never change. You can wait the 5 minutes it takes for me to walk a tier to count you. The second I walk by your door, have at it. Choose to lie down in front of the door where all I see is your ankles and feet and I'm going to kick the door until you stand(I also kick the door if you cover yourself with your blanket. I'm not going to compromise the rules because you want to be a dick). You refuse to stand and I promise you in short order you will be on your way to lockup for failure to stand count. Don't like it, don't come to jail. I'm not losing my job because some mook wants to play games.

    Sonna's nemesis got it right. Arpaio provides the basic needs of his inmates. He gets sued repeatedly and wins every time. Well, except the time when the inmates sued to get television and a leftist judge agreed. Of course someone forgot to set the parameters of what type of programming there has to be so Arpaio gave them TV with only 2 working channels: The Disney Channel and The Weather Channel. If I were ever to become governor, I'd hire this guy to be the commissioner of the DOC.

    The main thing is, if you don't like prison, don't do anything stupid to get into prison. Once you're here, too bad. This isn't meant to be a vacation.
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  3. #33  
    Sonnabend
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    When someone enters a supermax, they are never to come out. It's a one-way ticket. It IS a death sentence. It's just a matter of when.
    Different here. Some are lifers, some have max sentences BUT are eligible for release later down the line. A few have been stamped "mever to be released" (Anita Cobby case), but manyu in supermax here may have twenty or thirty year sentences, and are eligible for parole or release when the sentence is up. Each situation is different.

    but their communications will be monitored at all times.
    Question here. : isnt it a right or in the law that an attorney / client conversation cannot be monitored? IIRC, one of the cases that made up the Miranda/Escobedo law was predicated on this issue : that a lawyers conversation with his client was recorded and monitored?

    Sonna doesn't understand the constitution.
    I understand it a hell of a lot more than you can imagine. Matter of fact I probably know yours a hell of a lot better than you do mine. I've read your Constitution and the Federalist Papers as well. Can you say the same? I doubt very much you even knew Australia HAS a Constitution.

    Sonna's nemesis got it right. Arpaio provides the basic needs of his inmates.
    I gave my word not to open this can of worms and I will keep it. I'm just going to sit and wait for him to die, or step down, or be voted out of office. Then smile when the truth hits the fan.
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    I had 2 idiots in wheelchairs come to blows over the TV. But then again I've seen fights break out over cookies. To say these idiots are nothing but overgrown children is an understatement.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    1: Basic medical care. Nothing more than the basics for what is wrong with you which includes physical therapy, chemo, or whatever. However, it isn't going to be free. You are going to make some kind of restitution. If you're able to work, you're going to work it off. If you have the means to pay for the treatments then you're going to pay for it. Only if you're a complete invalid are you excused. If you can function at all, you can work even if it's being a runner or helping out in the school or helping with invalid inmates like helping them with their needs.

    <snip>

    .
    I need to spend a few years in prison so I can work on finishing my college degrees.
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  6. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by RobJohnson View Post
    I need to spend a few years in prison so I can work on finishing my college degrees.
    I'm telling you. If I became homeless, I'd move to one of those self-righteous cities that was anti-homeless and break laws every day until I was placed into prison so I could get back on my feet.
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    I'm telling you. If I became homeless, I'd move to one of those self-righteous cities that was anti-homeless and break laws every day until I was placed into prison so I could get back on my feet.
    You have to commit felonies to get into prison. Yes there is a difference between jail and prison.
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobJohnson View Post
    Dude, I wish I were making that up. The TV incident involved 2 black inmates. One was in the dayroom first and had the NASCAR race on(he and I used to talk racing a lot). The other goes in, sees what was on, and tries to change the channel. An argument ensued with the 2nd one yelling about the first guy watching "cracker TV".
    The Obama Administration: Deny. Deflect. Blame.
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  9. #39  
    Sin City Moderator RobJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    You have to commit felonies to get into prison. Yes there is a difference between jail and prison.


    So what you are saying is we would have to work really hard to get into prison?
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  10. #40  
    Sin City Moderator RobJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Dude, I wish I were making that up. The TV incident involved 2 black inmates. One was in the dayroom first and had the NASCAR race on(he and I used to talk racing a lot). The other goes in, sees what was on, and tries to change the channel. An argument ensued with the 2nd one yelling about the first guy watching "cracker TV".
    Two friends of mine were county sheriffs. One has passed away but they both were in charge of large county jails. Nothing surprises me. I used to repair all the city, county and state police cars that were involved in collisions. I seen plenty of crazy stuff when I was writing estimates on site or picking up/delivering cars. It was amazing how many of the trustees and work release guys that I recognized from some of the factories that I had worked in and past neighborhoods.
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