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  1. #11  
    HR Corporate Scum patriot45's Avatar
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    Lib think always escapes me!

    : “Grow your own dope. Plant a liberal.”
    ” Obummercare, 20 percent of the time it works everytime.
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  2. #12  
    Sonnabend
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    But how can a possible future president be married to someone who was once (for years) a member of a political organization not wanting to be a part of the United States any longer?
    1. Because he's her husband. and not her servant,. and can do as he damned well pleases.
    2. Because he has a mind of his own, unlike you liberals who do what everyone else says to do.
    3. Because he wanted to.
    4. Not that its any of your bloody business either way.

    Imbecile.
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  3. #13  
    John
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    Oh, I'm going to catch hell for this one.....

    I'm sure I'm not the only libertarian/conservative to realize what the founder's envisioned when they designed the federal government of the United States. They designed a governing body to govern interstate relationships amongst "the several states". I put that in quotes because it is significant. Each state in the Union is, supposed to be an independent governing body, accountable only to the people of its own territory. The constituents of each state decided. voluntarily, to submit their interstate dealings to the purview of the federal government. In other words, each state joined this union voluntarily, and should voluntarily be able to leave the union provided all debts and whatnot are settled.

    The American Civil War proved this is not possible. Not possible does not equal not right. While Abraham Lincoln did 'preserve the Union', he destroyed quite a bit of what the Union was designed for in the first place. As a direct result of the American Civil War, the Federal Government is now seen as higher power, an authority presiding over the several states instead of a moderator among equals. Never mind the fact that the Federal Government was only meant to be a moderating force to resolve disputes between the states, while governing and unifying their international presence.

    I don't want to seem like I'm some bitter old secessionist, because I'm not. I'm just trying to provide some perspective on history. I realize that strong federalism is what led to victory in WWI and WWII. The ability of the U.S. to crank out a brand new 223,000 aircraft and 22 aircraft carriers during the 3 or so years we were in WWII is a testament to federalism. Federalism is what enforced gas, nylon, and material rationing and put women to work in the factories while the men were out fighting. Hell, federalism is the reason an AZ driver's license is forced to be accepted in all other states.

    However, given all the good that comes from federalism, a lot of bad can come from it as well. For instance, while an AZ driver's license must be accepted in all other states, an AZ CCW permit does not have to be accepted. Affirmative action, massive redistribution of wealth, and blanket policies such as an assault weapons ban, are the downside of strong federalism. The drug, gun, and lifestyle policies of California, New York, and Massachusetts imposed upon Utah, Colorado, and Arizona are a big downside to rampant federalism.

    In other words, there are ups and downs to being a member of this Union of "several states". A free state must be able to weigh the ups and downs and withdraw from the union as the constituents of said state see fit. Therefore I have to see the presence of a secessionist party within Alaska as a product of healthy discourse.
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  4. #14  
    Sonnabend
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    I'm sorry, but Ron Paul isnt running now. Please come back in four years.

    Next!
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  5. #15  
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    I'm sorry, but Ron Paul isnt running now. Please come back in four years.

    Next!
    Uh, OK. I don't seem to have mentioned Ron Paul, St. Paul, Ron Jeremy, or any combination of the words "Ron" and "Paul". As a matter of fact all I have done is to provide a pretty factual birds eye view of the history of U.S. Government.

    I don't know what kids in the outback are taught about U.S. History, but in this country kids are taught to believe that Lincoln was some sort of Angel, who personally descended unto southern plantations and used his flaming sword to sever the bonds of slavery forever, and for such he was loved by all. Um, yeah, in case it wasn't obvious, that's a complete, historically untrue fairy tale. The simple fact that he was shot in the head should clue you in to the idea that he had many, many enemies. One enemy doesn't assassinate you, a conglomerate does. As a matter of fact, if Southern states had a voice in polls during the reconstruction period, Lincoln would have a lower approval rating than Congress does right now. Lincoln was not a hero of the people, he was widely hated.

    It's odd that the United States was the only nation in the world that had to kill half a million of its citizens to eradicate slavery. Portugal, Spain, and even the Middle East managed to do away with the practice relatively peaceably. The Civil War was about a centralization of power. There are ups and downs to that sort of centralization. If you can't see that, then you can just keep on believing that the gun bans you live under are fair and just.
    Last edited by John; 10-08-2008 at 05:38 AM.
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  6. #16  
    Sonnabend
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    I don't know what kids in the outback are taught about U.S. History
    First of all, Delta Hotel, I live in a city with over five million people in it. This one to be exact.



    Where the FUCK do you get this idiotic notion that there is nothing else to this country but the outback?

    The desert is sparsely populated because it's a desert (DUHHH....), and if you like, I'd be happy to post a map, and how you where the cities are. I know you Ronbots know very little else besides the feverish repeating of Paul talking points, but please do me a favour and take your head out of your ass long enough to consult an atlas now and then, will you?

    but in this country kids are taught to believe that Lincoln was some sort of Angel, who personally descended unto southern plantations and used his flaming sword to sever the bonds of slavery forever
    Actually, no, wrong again. you see we took Modern History as an elective , and our teacher was very careful and thorough to discuss and analyse Lincoln, we discussed his speeches, the man himself and the Civil War.

    Behind me is a copy of Andersonville, a complete set of maps and Foote's brilliant series on the War Between the States(I have read them all.Twice.).My teacher was very careful to also point out that whiilst Emancipation and slavery played a factor, the issue was specifically states rights, and that secession was over this very problem.

    We discussed slavery, we discussed and analysed the economic costs and the probable demise over time of the industry, as the era of technology began its inexorable advances. We discussed British slavery, we talked about their approaches and their mistakes as well.

    We went over Lincolns speeches, his legacy, his decisions and his faults, of of which we knew there were many. He was a great orator, and the Gettysburg Address is immortal

    and for such he was loved by all. Um, yeah, in case it wasn't obvious, that's a complete, historically untrue fairy tale
    No shit, sherlock

    The simple fact that he was shot in the head should clue you in to the idea that he had many, many enemies.
    It struck me as it always has about political assassinations, and the one factor that comes back to haunt is this: that using a gun or violence to deal with a political or ideological problem creates a martyr.

    In all the annals of history, in the inevitable march of Mankind ever onward, this can be truly said: martys can never be silenced.

    Ghandi, Aquino, Bhutto, McKinney, Lincoln..remembered to this day.

    All Booth is remembered for is the fact he broke the word of Robert E Lee at Appomattox (no more killing), and that a Southerner took a gun and cold bloodedly and with pre meditation murdered a Chief Executive.

    From behind, no less.

    One enemy doesn't assassinate you, a conglomerate does.
    Booth seems to have been one man. (Oh yes, I do know his name by the way, I know where he came from, and I know how he died.)

    As a matter of fact, if Southern states had a voice in polls during the reconstruction period, Lincoln would have a lower approval rating than Congress does right now. Lincoln was not a hero of the people, he was widely hated.
    We will never know, will we? It may very well have happened as you describe, it may have well gone down a different path...but thanks to one man's zeal and hatred, the road was not taken.

    Sic semper tyrannis? Booth was the tyrant, the dictator, he denied a possible future..good or bad, we will never know.

    Lincoln could have turned out as you say..he could equally have turned out to be one of the greatest Presidents you ever had. One madman's bullet made sure that promise was never fulfilled.

    And that is another thing..I will never, never understand, why in the name of all that's holy, you allowed a film into the US dealing with Presidential assassination, that for some sick, perverted, twisted, demented, diseased and obscene reason was allowed to be shown, said film using the face of a sitting President.

    Yes, yes, I know the First Amendment, but who was it that said that the Constitution wasnt a suicide pact?

    Do you have any idea of the precedent you just set?

    It's odd that the United States was the only nation in the world that had to kill half a million of its citizens to eradicate slavery.
    The war was over states rights, and as our class task team agreed, was inevitable anyway. Too many divisions, and too many states and governances, unable or unwilling to handle the changes that technology was bringing

    Portugal, Spain, and even the Middle East managed to do away with the practice relatively peaceably.
    And England and other nations.

    The Civil War was about a centralization of power. There are ups and downs to that sort of centralization. If you can't see that, then you can just keep on believing that the gun bans you live under are fair and just.
    Oh for Gods sake..another lesson. The blatant and ever present lie that there is no personal gun ownership in this country is really pissing me off. I dont mind innocent or basic questions, but I have a major problem with deliberate ignorance.

    Many Australians (765,000 or 5.2% of Australian adults as of August 2007) legally own and use firearms.

    I personally am not happy about the gun laws. I do not like them. I want them changed.

    But there is little or nothing I can personally do, in much the same way as you are singularly and personally unable to stop the bailout or the government overspending, pork barrelling and earmarks.

    Now I suggest that you get yourself to a local library, and start reading...I also find it personally embarrassing that I know close to 200% more about your country than you do about mine.

    I have read your Constitution.
    And the Bill of Rights
    And the Federalist Papers.

    I will wager that you don't even know if Australia HAS a Constitution, let alone whats in it. Or that you have ever bothered to find out.

    One of us is ill educated. Guess which one you are.
    Last edited by Sonnabend; 10-08-2008 at 08:27 AM.
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  7. #17  
    Sonnabend
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    Now class, pay attention.

    This is a map.

    Ever see one of these, John? They illustrate countries outside the United States (yes, I know its a bitter pill to swallow, but there are other countries in the world besides the US...)



    You see those circles? They are for (shock, gasp, horror) cities and towns where people live in them...I know, being a Ronbot you are slow on the update, but do you see how there is just ONE dot in the middle of the map?

    Well, John, that's the outback and that's ONE small town...but my my, will you look at that? all those pretty little circles aren't in the outback, are they?

    No...they aren't.

    This is not the outback



    Nor is this



    I don't know what kids in the outback are taught about U.S. History
    From what I can see, the average Australian child receives an education regarding the rest of the world that leaves the US education system for DEAD, if the above comment is any indication.

    Oh by the way , John, if you think that I am treating you like an idiot...well, guess what..I am. Say stupid things without thinking,. or checking facts, and you get treated accordingly.

    Normally this is what Eyelids does...but for you, I wanted to make it specially clear just how much of a fool you just made of yourself, and just how little you actually do know.
    Last edited by Sonnabend; 10-08-2008 at 08:24 AM.
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  8. #18  
    Senior Member LogansPapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Imbecile.
    So your wife has no influence on your opinions and decisions in your life?
    At Coretta Scott King's funeral in early 2006, Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert Kennedy, leaned over to him and whispered, "The torch is being passed to you." "A chill went up my spine," Obama told an aide. (Newsweek)
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  9. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by LogansPapa View Post
    Todd Palin was a member - up to 2002. What is this and what’s their mission statement?
    Goals
    Until we as Alaskans receive our Ultimate Goal, the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
    1) Remain a Territory.
    2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
    3) Accept Commonwealth status.
    4) Become a State.
    The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.
    AIP

    Interesting as this is, the actual platform of the party is essentially composed of conservative principles: smaller government, fewer regulations, access to state lands, RKBA, etc.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Rebel Yell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    AIP

    Interesting as this is, the actual platform of the party is essentially composed of conservative principles: smaller government, fewer regulations, access to state lands, RKBA, etc.
    Sad, but secession is the only way that's gonna happen.

    Oh, and Sonna. Fuck Lincoln. He started the ball rolling to the socialist empire we're now nearing.
    I feel that once a black fella has referred to white foks as "honky paleface devil white-trash cracker redneck Caspers," he's abdicated the right to get upset about the "N" word. But that's just me. -- Jim Goad
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