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  1. #111  
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    Quote Originally Posted by diabetus View Post
    you're just like your buddies txradioguy and wasp, you don't know how to read. Copy and paste the sanctions from the article smart guy. What am i in denial of? All I deny is wasp's knowledge of the situation. Your own statement proves regarding the cease fire proves you utterly wrong. We are also sending "nonlethal aid" which is more than just humanitarian aid to Ukraine right now. Read something before posting things that are completely, utterly wrong.
    This is silly...you're refusing to post any factual response to an article proving you wrong. Deflection, ignoring facts, and the inability to see the bigger picture...where have I seen that in government??
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  2. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by rednation View Post
    This is silly...you're refusing to post any factual response to an article proving you wrong. Deflection, ignoring facts, and the inability to see the bigger picture...where have I seen that in government??

    Refer to my lengthy post in response to wasp69 that his thin skinned self has utterly failed to respond to.
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  3. #113  
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    Quote Originally Posted by diabetus View Post
    I'm calling you out to respond again. Please don't be thin skinned wasp... I've been waiting for almost a week here...
    I really don't know how many more times, or how many more simplistic ways I can tell you that you'll get my response when I'm ready to give it to you. I have my daily priorities, DUmmie, and you're not that high up on my list.

    Quote Originally Posted by diabetus View Post
    ...it shouldn't take you that long to google something.
    Congress wrote a 39 page report about this particular situation. Have you had trouble finding it? I thought you were good at Google; was I wrong to assume that about you as well?

    Quote Originally Posted by diabetus View Post
    Refer to my lengthy post in response to wasp69 that his thin skinned self has utterly failed to respond to.
    Believe me when I say that you have proven it takes only seconds to think you're an expert from what can be gleaned on page 1 of a Google search result. I think I owe you an apology for assuming you had more knowledge and experience in regards to this event. I figured since you decided to drop the bait in the water, you had enough behind you to keep from getting yanked off of the dock.

    Alas, I was mistaken...

    There was a very good reason I didn't respond to that long winded, factually fractured, willfully ignorant pile of mental vomit you posted and instead decided to try and break it down one piece at a time to get a better picture of what I was dealing with - someone who was ignorant and did not have proper perspective of the strategic impact of sending a fully armed warship into an occupied port and the strategic significance of the presence of an Amphibious Command Ship sitting in a port further south, or, someone who is so arrogantly stupid that it borders on the psychotic. While ignorance can be corrected, there is no known cure for stupidity.

    You have, DUmmie, made it crystal clear which one you are.

    As such, after I'm done shredding how much you feel you know in this post, I'm done with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by diabetus View Post
    No, it just confirms that you have an opinion of what happened with no actual knowledge of what went on/proof, and you're just going with your opinion because you think you are right, even though you have no evidence actually confirming what you think or confirming the opposite opinion of what you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by diabetus View Post
    Your opinion is noted. if what you say is true...
    Maybe I should back up and introduce myself: Hi, diabetus, I'm wasp69. Honorably retired Navy Veteran who previously served in both Carrier Strike Battle Groups and Amphibious Ready Groups. While I may not have the same knowledge level as a doctorate in Naval and Geo Political History, I am very well versed in battle group composition as well as their capabilities and limitations. As someone who has been there and done that, I've also experienced things that never make it into the media. As someone who lived US policy at the tip of the spear, I am acutely aware of what the presence of US warships/Marine amphibious assault elements will do to radically change the tactical and strategic picture of any theater of operations; if they are used properly, of course. As someone who was on active duty at the time of Russia's misunderstanding with Georgia, the EU, and the US, I remember the "standby for emergency sortie" messages that flew in every direction during that first full week of August as well as some pieces of information that I could use to paint a bit of a more broad picture of what was happening with my Shipmates who were there/on their way there. That "insider knowledge" at which you sneered is more commonly known as practical experience.

    What is your experience and perspective on these matters, diabetus? Never mind, you've already demonstrated them...

    Now, where were we? Oh, I remember! You were proving the maxim that those who speak with the most obnoxious bluster are normally the ones who know the least.

    why wait until it is in torpedo range to "force" it to surface...
    Where it surfaced (around 5 miles) was well inside of torpedo range. The Song Class diesel/electric boats carry the YU-4 torpedo which can engage a surface target from 8 miles away. They also have the capability of carrying the YJ-8 ASM which has a range of up to 40 miles.

    We are no longer in the 1940's, submarines don't have to get dangerously close to "fire a torpedo", nor do they have to give their position away in such a dramatically stupid fashion.

    Point being is submarines are designed to stay hidden, even after firing torpedoes, because the ocean can be a bit tough to see through - especially if you have a good skipper that knows how to run and make like a hole in the water. Our sonar suites are the best in the world and they can hear whales farting miles away, but a good diesel/electric submarine driver can hide for a little while. Which, if you're as good at "google" as you think you are, makes the Song Class skipper's decision to surface in the middle of a battle group a really stupid one unless he had a catastrophic failure (batteries drained, O2 system failure, etc) or he had been chased out of the water by one of the group's undersea escorts. Didn't I mention this already?

    Had they sent pictures from their periscope of our Carrier and her escorts, that would have been cause for alarm. Surfacing in the middle of the group? Not so much.

    ...since you with all your insider knowledge/access to classified info know for a fact that it was forced to surface
    DUmmie, there is so much declassified documentation about undersea warfare, and the resultant games Submariners play with each other without actually "firing a torpedo", that they write books about it. You could pick a few up and read about it. Or you could make friends with current/former Submariners and learn something from them.

    Or you could ruck up and ride ships for 22 years like I did.

    the captain of the Chinese sub also could have known that the commander of the CVBG wasn't about to start a world war by sinking a Chinese naval vessel, or it was just a Chinese PR ploy since they also know the US navy is rational enough to not randomly start a war by attacking a submarine..
    BZZZZT! Wrong, DUmbass.

    The Captain of the Chinese submarine doesn't know dick about what anyone will do when he decides to surface next to another nation's aircraft carrier in the middle of a war game. And, if he hazarded his command off of that kind of assumption, he most certainly didn't live to see his next birthday.

    US Battle Group Commanders have lots of leeway when it comes to protecting thousands of lives and billions of dollars worth of hardware in the middle of the open ocean. I can guarantee you that entire battle group went straight to Condition I (Google it) and there were multiple weapons systems trained on that Song Class submarine. Why am I so sure? Because I've gotten the chance to play "tag" with the commie dickheads (Soviet and otherwise) out in the Pacific (on more than one occasion) to similar outcomes. Had that Chinese Captain so much as twitched the wrong way, that sub would have hit the bottom faster than you can say "Damn, I really don't have a clue about any of this".

    The most likely explanation is that he was trying to shadow the Battle Group and got caught under the water longer than his batteries allowed. A secondary, and extremely plausible, explanation is that he screwed up and a US fast attack boat drove him to the surface. While the policy put out for consumption by the public is that the United States does not engage in what know-nothing thumb suckers (you) would consider to be provocative actions with a nuclear powered submarine, the reality is much different. If you have enough intellectual curiosity, you'll learn that there's almost as much bump and run under the water as there is on a racetrack, Google-san. Which can, surprise-surprise, force a submarine to the surface in order to get away.

    Bottom line? The Chinese Captain tried to be slick, but instead got his dick stepped on for his efforts. Yeah, I'm positive about that.

    Oh, a PR ploy?



    We're talking about the Red Chinese, kid, not obama's sideshow. If they wanted PR points against us using a submarine, it would have been periscope video/pictures, splashed across the world, of the aft lookout picking his nose. Whatever resultant propaganda pushed by the communist media about this was for the consumption of mush-minded fools, like you, who don't know any better and won't listen to anyone but themselves.

    It has the same significance as flying MREs to Ukraine. In other words, none... the conflict was already over by the time they got there.
    Already over? Just because the major shooting stopped? Even with Russians still maintaining checkpoints and air patrols over Georgia? Considering the Russians didn't leave the port of Poti until the middle of September (that's the occupied port the USS McFaul pulled into in August), I'd have to conclude that you truly know less than shit about any of this. If one can learn anything from recent history, occupation can present as much hazard to human life as an invasion. The above quoted statement has to be one of the most stupidly myopic chunks of diarrhea I have had the displeasure of reading in quite some time; that's really saying something considering I read the daily retardation that is Democrat Underground. I'm no longer surprised at the depths leftist vermin will sink to excuse their leper messiah, the lengths they will go to marginalize others in attempting to burnish the democrat turd, but yours really does stand out.

    Bravo, DUmmie, bravo....

    The Veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq would certainly disagree with your position that there is no danger once major combat operations have ended. For that matter, I would invite you to put yourself in the middle of a gathering of them and convince them there was no danger - and I can arrange a meeting with quite a few if you would like to lecture them about what you read on Google.

    [B] Not to mention...S Ossetia and Abkhazia to this day are not Georgian
    Nor is the Crimea Ukrainian, despite king barky's individual sanctions.

    so the "middle finger" did nothing but say please give me my humvees back."




    In parting I bid thee well, DUmbass, and suggest you try and stick to those things about which you might have a clue... And take your smelly sock with you.
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  4. #114  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasp69 View Post
    I really don't know how many more times, or how many more simplistic ways I can tell you that you'll get my response when I'm ready to give it to you. I have my daily priorities, DUmmie, and you're not that high up on my list.



    Congress wrote a 39 page report about this particular situation. Have you had trouble finding it? I thought you were good at Google; was I wrong to assume that about you as well?



    Believe me when I say that you have proven it takes only seconds to think you're an expert from what can be gleaned on page 1 of a Google search result. I think I owe you an apology for assuming you had more knowledge and experience in regards to this event. I figured since you decided to drop the bait in the water, you had enough behind you to keep from getting yanked off of the dock.

    Alas, I was mistaken...

    There was a very good reason I didn't respond to that long winded, factually fractured, willfully ignorant pile of mental vomit you posted and instead decided to try and break it down one piece at a time to get a better picture of what I was dealing with - someone who was ignorant and did not have proper perspective of the strategic impact of sending a fully armed warship into an occupied port and the strategic significance of the presence of an Amphibious Command Ship sitting in a port further south, or, someone who is so arrogantly stupid that it borders on the psychotic. While ignorance can be corrected, there is no known cure for stupidity.

    You have, DUmmie, made it crystal clear which one you are.

    As such, after I'm done shredding how much you feel you know in this post, I'm done with you.





    Maybe I should back up and introduce myself: Hi, diabetus, I'm wasp69. Honorably retired Navy Veteran who previously served in both Carrier Strike Battle Groups and Amphibious Ready Groups. While I may not have the same knowledge level as a doctorate in Naval and Geo Political History, I am very well versed in battle group composition as well as their capabilities and limitations. As someone who has been there and done that, I've also experienced things that never make it into the media. As someone who lived US policy at the tip of the spear, I am acutely aware of what the presence of US warships/Marine amphibious assault elements will do to radically change the tactical and strategic picture of any theater of operations; if they are used properly, of course. As someone who was on active duty at the time of Russia's misunderstanding with Georgia, the EU, and the US, I remember the "standby for emergency sortie" messages that flew in every direction during that first full week of August as well as some pieces of information that I could use to paint a bit of a more broad picture of what was happening with my Shipmates who were there/on their way there. That "insider knowledge" at which you sneered is more commonly known as practical experience.

    What is your experience and perspective on these matters, diabetus? Never mind, you've already demonstrated them...

    Now, where were we? Oh, I remember! You were proving the maxim that those who speak with the most obnoxious bluster are normally the ones who know the least.



    Where it surfaced (around 5 miles) was well inside of torpedo range. The Song Class diesel/electric boats carry the YU-4 torpedo which can engage a surface target from 8 miles away. They also have the capability of carrying the YJ-8 ASM which has a range of up to 40 miles.

    We are no longer in the 1940's, submarines don't have to get dangerously close to "fire a torpedo", nor do they have to give their position away in such a dramatically stupid fashion.

    Point being is submarines are designed to stay hidden, even after firing torpedoes, because the ocean can be a bit tough to see through - especially if you have a good skipper that knows how to run and make like a hole in the water. Our sonar suites are the best in the world and they can hear whales farting miles away, but a good diesel/electric submarine driver can hide for a little while. Which, if you're as good at "google" as you think you are, makes the Song Class skipper's decision to surface in the middle of a battle group a really stupid one unless he had a catastrophic failure (batteries drained, O2 system failure, etc) or he had been chased out of the water by one of the group's undersea escorts. Didn't I mention this already?

    Had they sent pictures from their periscope of our Carrier and her escorts, that would have been cause for alarm. Surfacing in the middle of the group? Not so much.



    DUmmie, there is so much declassified documentation about undersea warfare, and the resultant games Submariners play with each other without actually "firing a torpedo", that they write books about it. You could pick a few up and read about it. Or you could make friends with current/former Submariners and learn something from them.

    Or you could ruck up and ride ships for 22 years like I did.



    BZZZZT! Wrong, DUmbass.

    The Captain of the Chinese submarine doesn't know dick about what anyone will do when he decides to surface next to another nation's aircraft carrier in the middle of a war game. And, if he hazarded his command off of that kind of assumption, he most certainly didn't live to see his next birthday.

    US Battle Group Commanders have lots of leeway when it comes to protecting thousands of lives and billions of dollars worth of hardware in the middle of the open ocean. I can guarantee you that entire battle group went straight to Condition I (Google it) and there were multiple weapons systems trained on that Song Class submarine. Why am I so sure? Because I've gotten the chance to play "tag" with the commie dickheads (Soviet and otherwise) out in the Pacific (on more than one occasion) to similar outcomes. Had that Chinese Captain so much as twitched the wrong way, that sub would have hit the bottom faster than you can say "Damn, I really don't have a clue about any of this".

    The most likely explanation is that he was trying to shadow the Battle Group and got caught under the water longer than his batteries allowed. A secondary, and extremely plausible, explanation is that he screwed up and a US fast attack boat drove him to the surface. While the policy put out for consumption by the public is that the United States does not engage in what know-nothing thumb suckers (you) would consider to be provocative actions with a nuclear powered submarine, the reality is much different. If you have enough intellectual curiosity, you'll learn that there's almost as much bump and run under the water as there is on a racetrack, Google-san. Which can, surprise-surprise, force a submarine to the surface in order to get away.

    Bottom line? The Chinese Captain tried to be slick, but instead got his dick stepped on for his efforts. Yeah, I'm positive about that.

    Oh, a PR ploy?



    We're talking about the Red Chinese, kid, not obama's sideshow. If they wanted PR points against us using a submarine, it would have been periscope video/pictures, splashed across the world, of the aft lookout picking his nose. Whatever resultant propaganda pushed by the communist media about this was for the consumption of mush-minded fools, like you, who don't know any better and won't listen to anyone but themselves.



    Already over? Just because the major shooting stopped? Even with Russians still maintaining checkpoints and air patrols over Georgia? Considering the Russians didn't leave the port of Poti until the middle of September (that's the occupied port the USS McFaul pulled into in August), I'd have to conclude that you truly know less than shit about any of this. If one can learn anything from recent history, occupation can present as much hazard to human life as an invasion. The above quoted statement has to be one of the most stupidly myopic chunks of diarrhea I have had the displeasure of reading in quite some time; that's really saying something considering I read the daily retardation that is Democrat Underground. I'm no longer surprised at the depths leftist vermin will sink to excuse their leper messiah, the lengths they will go to marginalize others in attempting to burnish the democrat turd, but yours really does stand out.

    Bravo, DUmmie, bravo....

    The Veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq would certainly disagree with your position that there is no danger once major combat operations have ended. For that matter, I would invite you to put yourself in the middle of a gathering of them and convince them there was no danger - and I can arrange a meeting with quite a few if you would like to lecture them about what you read on Google.



    Nor is the Crimea Ukrainian, despite king barky's individual sanctions.







    In parting I bid thee well, DUmbass, and suggest you try and stick to those things about which you might have a clue... And take your smelly sock with you.
    Get 'em, Wasp! I agree 100% with this post. Amazing to see someone who can actually do some RESEARCH and understands stuff outside of what the liberal media feeds them!

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  5. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by wasp69 View Post
    I really don't know how many more times, or how many more simplistic ways I can tell you that you'll get my response when I'm ready to give it to you. I have my daily priorities, DUmmie, and you're not that high up on my list.



    Congress wrote a 39 page report about this particular situation. Have you had trouble finding it? I thought you were good at Google; was I wrong to assume that about you as well?



    Believe me when I say that you have proven it takes only seconds to think you're an expert from what can be gleaned on page 1 of a Google search result. I think I owe you an apology for assuming you had more knowledge and experience in regards to this event. I figured since you decided to drop the bait in the water, you had enough behind you to keep from getting yanked off of the dock.

    Alas, I was mistaken...

    There was a very good reason I didn't respond to that long winded, factually fractured, willfully ignorant pile of mental vomit you posted and instead decided to try and break it down one piece at a time to get a better picture of what I was dealing with - someone who was ignorant and did not have proper perspective of the strategic impact of sending a fully armed warship into an occupied port and the strategic significance of the presence of an Amphibious Command Ship sitting in a port further south, or, someone who is so arrogantly stupid that it borders on the psychotic. While ignorance can be corrected, there is no known cure for stupidity.

    You have, DUmmie, made it crystal clear which one you are.

    As such, after I'm done shredding how much you feel you know in this post, I'm done with you.





    Maybe I should back up and introduce myself: Hi, diabetus, I'm wasp69. Honorably retired Navy Veteran who previously served in both Carrier Strike Battle Groups and Amphibious Ready Groups. While I may not have the same knowledge level as a doctorate in Naval and Geo Political History, I am very well versed in battle group composition as well as their capabilities and limitations. As someone who has been there and done that, I've also experienced things that never make it into the media. As someone who lived US policy at the tip of the spear, I am acutely aware of what the presence of US warships/Marine amphibious assault elements will do to radically change the tactical and strategic picture of any theater of operations; if they are used properly, of course. As someone who was on active duty at the time of Russia's misunderstanding with Georgia, the EU, and the US, I remember the "standby for emergency sortie" messages that flew in every direction during that first full week of August as well as some pieces of information that I could use to paint a bit of a more broad picture of what was happening with my Shipmates who were there/on their way there. That "insider knowledge" at which you sneered is more commonly known as practical experience.

    What is your experience and perspective on these matters, diabetus? Never mind, you've already demonstrated them...

    Now, where were we? Oh, I remember! You were proving the maxim that those who speak with the most obnoxious bluster are normally the ones who know the least.



    Where it surfaced (around 5 miles) was well inside of torpedo range. The Song Class diesel/electric boats carry the YU-4 torpedo which can engage a surface target from 8 miles away. They also have the capability of carrying the YJ-8 ASM which has a range of up to 40 miles.

    We are no longer in the 1940's, submarines don't have to get dangerously close to "fire a torpedo", nor do they have to give their position away in such a dramatically stupid fashion.

    Point being is submarines are designed to stay hidden, even after firing torpedoes, because the ocean can be a bit tough to see through - especially if you have a good skipper that knows how to run and make like a hole in the water. Our sonar suites are the best in the world and they can hear whales farting miles away, but a good diesel/electric submarine driver can hide for a little while. Which, if you're as good at "google" as you think you are, makes the Song Class skipper's decision to surface in the middle of a battle group a really stupid one unless he had a catastrophic failure (batteries drained, O2 system failure, etc) or he had been chased out of the water by one of the group's undersea escorts. Didn't I mention this already?

    Had they sent pictures from their periscope of our Carrier and her escorts, that would have been cause for alarm. Surfacing in the middle of the group? Not so much.



    DUmmie, there is so much declassified documentation about undersea warfare, and the resultant games Submariners play with each other without actually "firing a torpedo", that they write books about it. You could pick a few up and read about it. Or you could make friends with current/former Submariners and learn something from them.

    Or you could ruck up and ride ships for 22 years like I did.



    BZZZZT! Wrong, DUmbass.

    The Captain of the Chinese submarine doesn't know dick about what anyone will do when he decides to surface next to another nation's aircraft carrier in the middle of a war game. And, if he hazarded his command off of that kind of assumption, he most certainly didn't live to see his next birthday.

    US Battle Group Commanders have lots of leeway when it comes to protecting thousands of lives and billions of dollars worth of hardware in the middle of the open ocean. I can guarantee you that entire battle group went straight to Condition I (Google it) and there were multiple weapons systems trained on that Song Class submarine. Why am I so sure? Because I've gotten the chance to play "tag" with the commie dickheads (Soviet and otherwise) out in the Pacific (on more than one occasion) to similar outcomes. Had that Chinese Captain so much as twitched the wrong way, that sub would have hit the bottom faster than you can say "Damn, I really don't have a clue about any of this".

    The most likely explanation is that he was trying to shadow the Battle Group and got caught under the water longer than his batteries allowed. A secondary, and extremely plausible, explanation is that he screwed up and a US fast attack boat drove him to the surface. While the policy put out for consumption by the public is that the United States does not engage in what know-nothing thumb suckers (you) would consider to be provocative actions with a nuclear powered submarine, the reality is much different. If you have enough intellectual curiosity, you'll learn that there's almost as much bump and run under the water as there is on a racetrack, Google-san. Which can, surprise-surprise, force a submarine to the surface in order to get away.

    Bottom line? The Chinese Captain tried to be slick, but instead got his dick stepped on for his efforts. Yeah, I'm positive about that.

    Oh, a PR ploy?



    We're talking about the Red Chinese, kid, not obama's sideshow. If they wanted PR points against us using a submarine, it would have been periscope video/pictures, splashed across the world, of the aft lookout picking his nose. Whatever resultant propaganda pushed by the communist media about this was for the consumption of mush-minded fools, like you, who don't know any better and won't listen to anyone but themselves.



    Already over? Just because the major shooting stopped? Even with Russians still maintaining checkpoints and air patrols over Georgia? Considering the Russians didn't leave the port of Poti until the middle of September (that's the occupied port the USS McFaul pulled into in August), I'd have to conclude that you truly know less than shit about any of this. If one can learn anything from recent history, occupation can present as much hazard to human life as an invasion. The above quoted statement has to be one of the most stupidly myopic chunks of diarrhea I have had the displeasure of reading in quite some time; that's really saying something considering I read the daily retardation that is Democrat Underground. I'm no longer surprised at the depths leftist vermin will sink to excuse their leper messiah, the lengths they will go to marginalize others in attempting to burnish the democrat turd, but yours really does stand out.

    Bravo, DUmmie, bravo....

    The Veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq would certainly disagree with your position that there is no danger once major combat operations have ended. For that matter, I would invite you to put yourself in the middle of a gathering of them and convince them there was no danger - and I can arrange a meeting with quite a few if you would like to lecture them about what you read on Google.



    Nor is the Crimea Ukrainian, despite king barky's individual sanctions.







    In parting I bid thee well, DUmbass, and suggest you try and stick to those things about which you might have a clue... And take your smelly sock with you.

    Of course you have daily priorities. You are clearly an intelligent, even tempered guy clearly. I do as well, but it is fun to hear you try and fail over and over again to defend an indefensible position. It is even more fun to see you get flustered as you desperately flail and deflect to completely irrelevant subjects, like this entire thing about China. Yes. An amphibious command ship was off the coast of port occupied by the Russians. They did not leave the port, or as you so eloquently put it, pull back into Russia or the two former regions of georgia they had taken. They did nothing in response to it. Your own post says that "Considering the Russians didn't leave the port of Poti until the middle of September (that's the occupied port the USS McFaul pulled into in August)." So yes, according to you, the great wasp69, the presence of the ship did nothing. And yes, the war was over, unless you think there was some kind of Russian insurgency/guerrilla war going on. As far as your resume goes, great, you were in the navy. I sincerely congratulate you for being in the navy. Good job. Thank you for telling me what you think happened with an irrelevant chinese sub, and what your online buddies also think happened. It's great to know that you just write what you think happened, instead of what actually happened. Who needs anything like proof or evidence, right? Also, yes. Bring me a group of GWOT vets so I can talk to them about what happened in Georgia in 2008, that will help, or it will just be irrelevant as all the nice attempts to insult me you posted here.



    I can post pictures in a thread too!
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