#1 Shinseki Opposed Iraq. How Soon We Forget, and Throw a Man to the Wolves.....
05-22-2014, 08:31 PM
- Join Date
- May 2008
DUers have decided (most of them anyway) that they need to support and believe Shinseki .
Why, you ask? Because of his stand on Iraq. That's right. Iraq.
And of course Obama, their savior, needs them to have his back.
msanthrope (24,151 posts)
Shinseki Opposed Iraq. How Soon We Forget, and Throw a Man to the Wolves.....
Oh...isn't this rich. Those who call for Shinseki's resignation, forgetting what he stood for. Those who forget he was the lone voice at the Pentagon, telling us all it was not going to be a quick and dirty little war......
Another carcass to the Repukes????
Shame, shame.....the repukes want Shinseki out as payback, before 2016.
Former Rumsfeld Flack Falsely Calls Shinseki’s Opposition To Rumsfeld’s Iraq War Plan ‘A Legend’....
In a Washington Post op-ed today, Lawrence Di Rita, former special assistant to Donald Rumsfeld, decries the “myth” surrounding Gen. Eric Shinseki’s February 2003 statement that “several hundred thousand troops” would be needed secure Iraq. Di Rita claims that Shinseki in fact supported the Rumsfeld plan because he did not speak up against it in meetings. The former Rumsfeld aide calls Shinseki’s opposition “one of the most enduring myths of the Bush presidency” and “a legend”:
Here are some facts: First, Shinseki, as a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, supported the war plan. . … There was ample opportunity for the chiefs to express concerns and propose alternatives. There is no record of Shinseki having objected.
In reality, Shinseki and Rumsfeld had a fundamental disagreement on strategy. In his testimony, Shinseki stated that “hundreds of thousands” of troops would be needed for “post-hostilities control” over land “that’s fairly significant with the kinds of ethnic tensions that could lead to other problems.” The Pentagon, in contrast, assumed that there would be minimal internal resistance, thus, there would be no need for so many troops. In July 2003, for example, Paul Wolfowitz admitted that Pentagon officials “turned out to underestimate the problem.”
Di Rita also fails to mention that the Pentagon quickly “castrated” Shinseki by ridiculing him publicly. While Di Rita claimed that “Sinseki was not forced from office, as ThinkProgress has documented, Rumsfeld announced Shinseki’s successor 18 months prior to Shinseki’s retirement — a signal that dissent would not be tolerated:
I stand with Eric Shinseki. He didn't lie about Iraq, but people who did seek to gain from his ouster absolutely did.Star Member Jackpine Radical (40,352 posts)
5. Shinseki is not responsible for the current VA mess.
It's a matter of the Republicans (mostly) cutting the VA budget & then forming lynching parties when the consequences of their cuts become manifest.
Sure, people did bad things, but it's a pretty big system & it's not possible for the guy on top to police everything. How was he supposed to know about record destruction in NM, when the whole system was too monetarily strapped to even police itself?Dawson Leery (10,962 posts)
28. I stand with Shinseki.
This assault on him from the right wing is unacceptable.
Star Member former9thward (10,000 posts)
90. The last decrease in the VA budget was in 1994.
It has gone up every year since. There have been no cuts.
Star Member Jackpine Radical (40,352 posts)
98. But the demands have far outpaced the increases.
Many things have happened, such as presumptive rulings on Agent Orange and new rules on PTSD evaluations, to bring in a lot of aging Vietnam vets (I am one such), and the incredible injuries sustained by the Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghanistan vets have pretty much overwhelmed the system.AnalystInParadise (979 posts)
13. Who has failed miserably at his job and should resign
Honor and kudos to the man for being against the war, but that does not absolve him of other issues.Star Member msanthrope (24,151 posts)
15. I disagree. These problems predated him. nt
AnalystInParadise (979 posts)
16. Yes and appear to have gotten worse under himProSense (115,914 posts)
17. That is
" Yes and appear to have gotten worse under him. Yes and appear to have gotten worse under him"
Cut & pastes blaming RepublicansAnalystInParadise (979 posts)
35. So the lying, wait lists, and drug selling
actually mean things are better? Is that really where you want to take this.
I am a vet that uses the VA in El Paso......Keep pissing down my leg and telling me it is raining.......Star Member jeff47 (11,799 posts)
36. Yes, it's clearly worse. The TV says so!
Sure, the fire marshal hasn't condemned any VA facilities for being overstuffed with paper in years, and the massive 2008 backlog has been cut in half. But the media's making a big deal out of it now, so it must be worse.
Star Member msanthrope (24,151 posts)
83. "Appear" is the key word here. Remember how the IRS and Benghazi fake scandals first appeared? nt
MohRokTah (1,017 posts)
11. It's all about scoring points against Obama.eomAnalystInParadise (979 posts)
14. Yeah screw those dead veterans
this is all about PBO......
Forest for the trees from some of you...........Star Member JI7 (45,964 posts)
18. that's why those calling for his resignation refuse to fund the VAAnalystInParadise (979 posts)
39. Seems some of our people
Weird how you keep ignoring these two Congressmen.
And last time I checked the lying isn't a funding issue. Unless you want to try and tell me that the lying by VA officials was about money. Is the VA underfunded? Yep, you won't get an argument from me about that. But I can hold the Repukes accountable through the ballot box which is the mechanism to replace them and I can try to hold Shinseki accountable through resignation the mechanism for appointed individuals.
It's funny, nobody wants to talk about two of our own party, one a member of the CBC demanding Shinseki's resignation. I expect those two to be joined by more Democrats of good conscience in the next few days. Especially when the St Louis, Miami and Dallas stories hit between now and Memorial Day. Things are about to get a lot worse on this subject.Star Member Cha (143,777 posts)
42. I don't care what those two congressman have to say about it.. I don't know them ..
I do know Pres Obama and I know those on DU whom I respect..
"Back during the Bush years, the husband of a friend of mine worked on the staff at a VA hospital. He witnessed similar shenanigans used with psychiatric patients there. He reported it and his fellow docs did everything under the sun to squeeze him out of his job to the point that he was in great distress himself. This sort of duplicitous gaming has been going on for years in the VA. It does not surprise me that Shinseki was unaware. We have seen it surface from time to time. Remember the mess with mold growing in the hospitals? The VA system is overtaxed in the extreme right now. It is underfunded, understaffed, and the patient rosters are filled to the max. This is a systemic issue and it needs to be addressed by the Congress by more than grandstanding and speechifying."
"I think what was going on was a "local" problem
things have improved greatly at the VA since Shinseki took over.
The department is far from perfect, but services are so much better than under the previous administration.
I'm about giving the man a chance.
If, however, he was involved in the shenanigans, then of course he should go.
But remember the VA and ALL govt. services have had to endure severe budget cuts.
Personally I blame the people holding the purse strings. They would like nothing more than to privatize the VA -- a method to their madness. Remember Walter Reed?"
AnalystInParadise (979 posts)
50. So yeah about that VA budget cut.
I see you are from the Hermann Goering school of obfuscation. Page 4 is what you want
The VA budget is now 50 BILLION dollars higher than when PBO took office. 50 BILLION higher with these problems and I am not supposed to look at Shinseki. You are daft...........Star Member Cha (143,777 posts)
54. Your little Insults to Distract are nothing more.. I see you're not having much traction
with your ignorant campaign to get Eric Shinseki fired.
Star Member YvonneCa (9,198 posts)
70. The VA was inadequate to meet needs...
...of veterans long before GWB started the Iraq War. Bush made it untenable by increasing the number of veterans in the system...Iraq War Veterans...needlessly.
Bush didn't plan or budget for the needs of these veterans, when going to war (safety tools body armor) or after the war (PTSD rehab medical care). THAT is what Shinseki is tasked to fix. And the GOP is trying to hang it on the Obama Administration. That's unconscionable.
Last edited by Carol; 05-22-2014 at 08:41 PM.
05-22-2014, 08:48 PM
Sorry DUmmies, your fearless leader is in charge now. This is his problem.
Why doesn't The Almighty One go in and throw some $$$ and people at this???
He'd look even more Almightyish!!! Instead, he basically does nothing.
"I'll look at it when someone else is done looking at it. Maybe. When is my Tee Time???"May the FORCE be with you!
05-25-2014, 11:00 PMIt's not how old you are, it's how you got here.
It's been a long road and not all of it was paved.
A man is but a product of his thoughts. What he thinks, he becomes. Gandhi
Originally Posted by Carol
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