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  1. #1 UCC Church minister hands out condoms at Hobby Lobby protest 
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    Clergy Protest Supreme Court By Handing Out Condoms At Hobby Lobby
    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014...y-lobby-store/

    A group of clergy handed out condoms to customers in front of an Illinois Hobby Lobby store on Wednesday, staging a creative, faith-based protest against the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision to grant the craft store giant religious exemptions from the Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate.

    The action, which was reportedly initiated by a local United Church of Christ (UCC) minister in Aurora, Illinois, included representatives from the UCC, the Unitarian Universalist Association (UUA), and Planned Parenthood. Hobby Lobby’s health care plan covers male condoms and various other forms of contraception — and its case to the Supreme Court had to do with other kinds of measures to prevent pregnancy — but the religious leaders said the protest was ultimately about exposing the multiplicity of religious beliefs around contraception.

    “I’m just hoping that (people who see the demonstration) realize that this opinion (of Hobby Lobby’s owners) is not the opinion of religious people as a broad spectrum, but that religious people have many different opinions,” Rev. Emmy Lou Belcher, a UUA minister who was at the protest, told the Daily Herald.

    Religious leaders also said they hoped the move would draw attention to the danger of allowing employers to privilege their own religious beliefs over those of their employees.

    “You can make the religious freedom argument, you can make the argument about contraception, but ultimately, for me, this is about power,” said Rev. Mark Winters, a UCC minister. “Jesus had a lot of issue with powerful people using power over the powerless.”...
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    I'm hyper. Lanie's Avatar
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    This is their first amendment right. However, it's encouraging the wrong behavior. People can go to the drug store for condoms.
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    PORCUS MAXIMUS Rockntractor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    This is their first amendment right.
    That would depend on whether or not they were on private property but at any rate they managed to make asses of themselves.
    The difference between pigs and people is that when they tell you you're cured it isn't a good thing.
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    Senior Member Dlr Pyro's Avatar
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    I don't believe that condoms were a sticking point for Hobby Lobby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlr Pyro View Post
    I don't believe that condoms were a sticking point for Hobby Lobby.

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    The left is spewing lies, because the truth doesn't fit their agenda.
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    Senior Member Bailey's Avatar
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    All this trouble over...YOU GUESSED IT the govt getting involved in private health insurance (mandates). Why is EVERY problem linked in someway to the govt? They cause this mess and when part of the govt corrects it MORE problems arise. The moral of the story is leave well enough alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlr Pyro View Post
    I don't believe that condoms were a sticking point for Hobby Lobby.

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    Surprisingly, to me at least, the linked article from ThinkProgress specifically pointed out that HL's medical plan covered condoms. As I occasionally say, when you have low expectations most surprises are pleasant. Accuracy from ThinkProgress is a pleasant surprise (and I'm sure they'll make up for it).

    “You can make the religious freedom argument, you can make the argument about contraception, but ultimately, for me, this is about power,” said Rev. Mark Winters, a UCC minister. “Jesus had a lot of issue with powerful people using power over the powerless.”
    For some reason, I don't think this UCC ______ had in mind the Obama MALAdministration's forcing on business owners a choice between violating their religious beliefs or violating a law. (I will not sully the word "minister" by associating it with this fool!)
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    Destroyer of Worlds Apocalypse's Avatar
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    I haven't chimed in on this yet, but reading all the post made by people concerning the SCOTUS ruling regarding Hobby Lobby and how mis-informed they are in their comments, this will be my only post.

    It is inappropriate to argue that a decision affirming religious liberty is against religious liberty. Any Doomsday hypotheticals are flatly wrong. The Hobby Lobby case was not about vaccines or contraceptives as a whole.

    The case was decided under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which has been around since 1993 signed into law by President Bill Clinton.

    Anyone trying to claim that Hobby Lobby's victory is infringing upon anyone's freedom of religion, or personal rights is as mis-informed as one can get. It has not, and indeed cannot, prevent anyone from having access to any legally available contraceptive methods. Women's access is the same today as it was yesterday, the day before, even the year before, and as it was before the government mandate. No ones rights have been violated in access to any form of contraceptives and abortifacients.

    When people start claiming that Hobby Lobby is forcing people to believe in sacred texts, deities, or anything else. They are in their own right flatly wrong. To the contrary, they are merely objecting to being forced themselves by the government to pay for that which they view as objectionable to their own personal Religious views. As I have noted above, Hobby Lobby has not and cannot prevent anyone from using whatever form of abortifacients they choose. When arguing that they are being unfair to their employes, no one is forced to work there, and anyone thinking about working there knows what their beliefs on the matter. So if you don't like it, don't work there, or leave if you're there now. Find an employer who has views compatible to your own. And as a retailer, if you object with their corporate views and practices, don't shop there either. No one is forcing you to spend your money there either.

    For anyone arguing that "our constitution" is being violated by this decision. Last time I checked, that very document provided that the government could not prevent the free exercise of religion, and it says nothing about it not applying to running a business.

    Many like to argue the "Separation of Church & State" in cases like this. But forget that that separation goes both ways. Much as the Church can not force the "State" to adopt views or practices in line with that of the Church. The State is likewise forbidden in forcing those of Religious beliefs into violating those same beliefs. The separation goes both ways.

    Likewise for the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, on which the decision was based. Any person who claims a sincere religious belief, encountering a government action or law that places a substantial burden on that belief, the government must prove a compelling state interest in enforcing that action or law, and that it pursued that action or law in the least burdensome way for those of religious beliefs. To which many have tried claiming that spending tax dollars on the military (IE War) violates their religious views on "Do not murder", the state has successfully argued that the military (War) is in the states interest for protecting the state.

    A business is founded by people, run by people and owned by people. If you founded a business, you are not forced to forgo your religious beliefs when you create your business. And SCOTUS has ruled many times in the past your religious beliefs may be a part of your business if you wish.

    Many people reasonably believe that their faith informs and guides everything they do at all times, not just an hour a week in a worship service. There are many such establishments out there, from religious bookstores to kosher restaurants. Any problem with those? Must they now start selling Atheist books and non-kosher meals because religion must be excluded from any for profit establishment?

    And the best part is.

    All of this is written by an Atheist.

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    Power CUer NJCardFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
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    “Jesus had a lot of issue with powerful people using power over the powerless.”...
    Several things here. #1, I don't think Jesus would be too happy with a church promoting casual sex. #2, funny how this church doesn't have a problem with the government mandating people to get health insurance with the threat of penalty. You know, powerful people using power over the powerless. Jesus would call this minister a hypocrite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    Several things here. #1, I don't think Jesus would be too happy with a church promoting casual sex.
    It's been a very long time since the UUs cared much about Scripture. Sometimes I think there could be more UUs who believe in UFOs than UUs who believe in a god more personal that the tree or rock next to them. As for the UCC, Jeremiah Wright is a revered UCC "pastor". 'Nuff said? These denominations aren't unique in rejecting Scripture. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) has welcomed homosexual clergy and leaders, and abortionist George Tiller was a leader in an ELCA congregation (IIRC, he was being an usher when he was murdered).

    I don't think Jesus is any more real to such people than they want Him to be or than serves their purposes. That Jesus might have authority over them? That Jesus might define right and wrong to be other than they want it to be? Certainly NOT!
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