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  1. #1 More Hating on Christianity 
    Senior Member Junebug68's Avatar
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    They hate what they don't understand.

    John Gauger (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-26-08 02:04 AM
    Original message
    Why are believers so attached to their beliefs?
    I just apologized to my Catholic friend for saying that Christian morality is similar to Pavlovian conditioning.
    What on earth is wrong with Christian morality???

    She is one of my closest and dearest friends, and I would never want to hurt her in any way, so of course I had to apologize for insulting her. But what bothers me is that she said, "I can't believe you would say that." I was telling her about the "Do animals undergo an afterlife" thread (in which I think I pretty thoroughly demolished the idea of an afterlife - there just isn't any logical way of determining who goes and who doesn't go)
    He clearly doesn't understand the concept of faith.

    wherein someone suggested that animals cannot sin. One of the other guys asked about dogs who maul children, and my friend said that dogs know the difference between right and wrong. Of course, they do not, they know what actions they will be rewarded for and what actions they will be punished for. In this I said Christian morality, the basis of which is a future state of rewards and punishments, is similar to Pavlovian conditioning. Now, I'm sorry that I made her angry, I love her and all that, but I'm not sorry for the simple act of making that statement. Because it's true. I understand that it's not good, but it's true, and the problem is not with my stating it. I don't feel I should have had to apologize for saying that.

    So now I can't talk to her about religion any more.
    Arrogant fool.

    and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Sat Apr-26-08 04:49 PM
    Response to Original message
    1. believers so attached to their beliefs..
    IMO, because they think that actual life is miserable, that they only live to die and hope to be rewarded when they are dead.

    Religion to me, is very sad. You only get one shot at life, so you better make the most of it because you will not get another chance. I would not want to live under a state of paranoia, thinking that there is an invisible man in the sky that grants wishes and answers prayers. That is just living a lie and being very naive.

    Living this one chance under a form of slavery is indeed very sad to me. Being bound to some dark age nonsense is like living in the past and saying that there is not hope for this life, like being mad that you were ever born in the first place.

    Your comparison to religion and Pavlovian conditioning is correct.
    WillBowden (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-27-08 09:45 PM
    Response to Original message
    5. Because they are frightened little children... Afraid of the dark. That there's something under the bed. The boogeyman is real.
    ozone_man (1000+ posts) Thu Jun-12-08 10:44 PM
    Response to Original message
    9. How else can you get the masses to vote against there best interests? By the promises of rewards in heaven. Religion is the opiate of the masses.

    I think Pavlovian conditioning is pretty accurate. The reasons for the conditioning are less obvious. I think it's always been a conspiracy between church and state to maintain power by controlling the masses.
    Anyone got a tinfoil hat for this guy?

    Seriously, how exactly are they hurt so much by other's beliefs that they feel they need to not only make fun of them but try to destroy them as well?

    http://www.democraticunderground.com...ress=263x32300
    They're not people, they're hippies!! -Cartman

    It is nothing against you to fall down flat, but to lie there - that's disgrace
     

  2. #2  
    BSR
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    Just unreal. They mock your entire belief system, then are shocked you are a bit offended by it. You call them the "democrat party" and they fucking explode.
     

  3. #3  
    Conditioning is a technique in which a reward is always offered for a behavior until the behavior is ingrained and then the rewards become sporadic.

    Faith is not dependent on rewards (even of an interior nature) and this is what makes faith heroic in the classical sense. It is a transcendent experience that manifests even when you are punished for having it.

    I can't wait until the DUmmies actually meet real life people who aren't Christian but who do have faith. What will they do? How will they mock them? It will be most amusing.
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Vegas View Post
    Just unreal. They mock your entire belief system, then are shocked you are a bit offended by it. You call them the "democrat party" and they fucking explode.
    I'm not shocked that people are offended when I mock Christianity and other religions. I expect to be hated for mocking religion.
    Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
     

  5. #5  
    BSR
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    I'm not shocked that people are offended when I mock Christianity and other religions. I expect to be hated for mocking religion.
    I dont hate you for mocking my religion. Im sad for you. Im comfortable in my relationship with the Lord that there is nothing you can say or do to anger me when my faith is involved. Mock all you want, Jesus knew that it was going to happen.

    Luke 6:22-23

    22 What blessings await you when people hate you and exclude you and mock you and curse you as evil because you follow the Son of Man. 23 When that happens, be happy! Yes, leap for joy! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, their ancestors treated the ancient prophets that same way.
    Last edited by BSR; 06-13-2008 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Changed scripture to the New Living Translation for those DUmmies who cant read
     

  6. #6  
    Senior Member Molon Labe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    I'm not shocked that people are offended when I mock Christianity and other religions. I expect to be hated for mocking religion.
    I don't hate anyone for mocking religion. I'm a Christian and I can often times see why people are turned off...however; faith in something is no different than faith in nothing or the self. So why should we actually mock anyone?
    Gun Control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound - Unknown


    The problem is Empty People, Not Loaded Guns - Linda Schrock Taylor
     

  7. #7  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molon Labe View Post
    I don't hate anyone for mocking religion. I'm a Christian and I can often times see why people are turned off...however; faith in something is no different than faith in nothing or the self. So why should we actually mock anyone?
    Having faith in oneself is a lot different from having faith in God because having faith in oneself, unlike having faith in God, usually does not involve believing extravagant claims. For instance, I have faith in my ability to cook eggs because I've eaten evidence of my ability to cook eggs. Conversely, I don't have faith in God because I've never come across any evidence that God exists.
    Last edited by The Night Owl; 06-13-2008 at 12:31 PM.
    Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
     

  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Having faith in oneself is a lot different from having faith in God because having faith in oneself, unlike faith in God, usually does not involve believing extravagant claims.
    Really? Have you actually looked around at the people who have faith in themselves lately? I see a lot of checks being written that will never be cashed. :D
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member The Night Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Really? Have you actually looked around at the people who have faith in themselves lately? I see a lot of checks being written that will never be cashed. :D
    Yes. I spent a little bit of time yesterday and today arguing with people at DU who are convinced that they can predict Barack Obama's future by considering the positions of stars and planets.

    People who think I'm too harsh on Christianity should watch me unload on the pagans and the New Age mystics.
    Last edited by The Night Owl; 06-13-2008 at 12:38 PM.
    Ubi Dubium Ibi Libertas
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member dixierat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Night Owl View Post
    Having faith in oneself is a lot different from having faith in God because having faith in oneself, unlike having faith in God, usually does not involve believing extravagant claims. For instance, I have faith in my ability to cook eggs because I've eaten evidence of my ability to cook eggs. Conversely, I don't have faith in God because I've never come across any evidence that God exists.

    I'm not particularly religious, but I do believe in a higher power. I guess one would call it God. And I see the evidence of that power all around me, every dya.

    When I was a kid, we were the United States of America, Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. Now, we're America, Land of the Sheep and Home of the NaÔve.

    Live each day as if you're going to die tomorrow. Learn each day as if you'll live forever.
     

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