Thread: Texas Bishops Face Protests from 24 Pro-Abortion Catholics .

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26
  1. #1 Texas Bishops Face Protests from 24 Pro-Abortion Catholics . 
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    22,891

    "It Looks Like The Faithful Catholics Need To Support Their Bishops !"

    "Some two-dozen parishioners walked out and went to the local media to lodge their complaints about "political endorsements."

    When is the last time a bishop's statement on abortion resulted in several days of protest from pro-abortion Catholics? The joint statement issued last Friday by Bishop Kevin Vann of Fort Worth and Bishop Kevin Farrell of Dallas has done just that. No doubt the forceful clarity of the bishops' message elicited the outcry.

    The protests began on Sunday when the statement was read from the pulpit by Rev. Tony Ruiz, pastor of Holy Trinity Catholic Church in downtown Dallas. Some two-dozen parishioners walked out and went to the local media to lodge their complaints about "political endorsements."

    The next day, the Dallas Morning News carried the story on the front page of its Metro section. "The silver lining was that the article contained a link to the bishops' statement," said Karen Garnett, executive director of the Catholic Pro-Life Committee, Respect Life Ministry of the Diocese of Dallas.

    Garnett told me that the subsequent protest on Wednesday afternoon in front of the diocesan chancery attracted the same number of people who had walked out of the Mass at Holy Trinity. Bishop Farrell, who was out of town on Wednesday, has offered to meet with the protesters.

    "Too many parishes do seminars on 'Faithful Citizenship' that don't put the life issues first. We've been dealing with that problem for 35 years," added Garnett.

    Olivia Franklin, a member of Holy Trinity for 15 years, heard Father Ruiz read the statement. "I'm thrilled that he read it, and I hurried out the door to tell him thank you. This is the truth, and we need to hear the truth."

    Franklin had recently attended four seminars at Holy Trinity on "Faithful Citizenship." At these sessions she was told "one could in fact vote for a pro-abortion candidate if one was not voting for them for that reason." She raised objections to what was being taught, only to be told it was just her opinion.

    There have been over 40 statements to date issued by bishops this election season. Some responded to comments made by Sen. Barack Obama's running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, about the beginning of human life. Others responded to Speaker Nancy Pelosi's appearance on Meet the Press when she, too, misrepresented the Church's teaching on abortion.


    But the biggest problem of this election for Catholics has been the bishops' own document, "Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship." In an otherwise admirable document, there is one section (Sec. 34-37) that has provided an open door for pro-abortion Catholics to drive through and proclaim their support for Obama, a proponent of abortion-on-demand. (I have already written about the effort to use "Faithful Citizenship" to help Obama.)

    One of the problematic passages in "Faithful Citizenship" presently being spun by Obama's Catholic supporters is the following:

    35. There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate's unacceptableposition may decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons.

    Voting in this way would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamentalmoral evil.

    Bishops Vann and Farrell demolish the arguments of leading Obama Catholic surrogate Doug Kmiec and others, that "Faithful Citizenship" can be interpreted to support Obama in the present election.

    Bishops Vann and Farrell explain that voting for a candidate who supports an intrinsic evil like abortion is possible only if 1) "both candidates running for office support abortion or 'abortion rights,'" or if 2) "another intrinsic evil outweighs the evil of abortion."

    Obama's Catholic apologists argue such a situation exists with Sen. John McCain, citing his support for the Iraq War. Bishops Vann and Farrell reject this line of reasoning in advance, saying "there are no 'truly grave moral' or 'proportionate' reasons, singularly or combined, that could outweigh the millions of innocent human lives that are directly killed by legal abortion each year."

    Olivia Franklin believes God is using the bishops' statement and the controversy at Holy Trinity. "For too long authentic Catholic social teaching has been co-opted by the 'social justice' crowd, who rail about the death penalty while conveniently ignoring the real death penalty presently being carried out -- the 4,000 babies executed daily by abortionists."
    http://insidecatholic.com/Joomla/ind...4713&Itemid=48
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,852
    Good for them... Not for supporting Obama, but for breaking away from the Church on this issue
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Swamps of N. Florida
    Posts
    22,172
    Standing up for the murder of children is always a good thing I guess.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Now if they will just follow through and leave their church completely. There are innumerable secular organizations willing to take their money and their time. Saints and sinners belong together but sheep and wolves don't - at least not yet.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    22,891
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    Now if they will just follow through and leave their church completely. There are innumerable secular organizations willing to take their money and their time. Saints and sinners belong together but sheep and wolves don't - at least not yet.
    They can make much more noise by running to the MSM on every issue and remaining so called Catholics.

    If they are against the teachings of the church why do they remain Catholics .They should know that eventually a bishop with some courage will stand up and declare the the Church's true position .The Catholic Church has too long 'pussy footed 'around this issue because of political sensitivity's and now is the time to speak out and condemn it !

    Why are they surprised and why do they protest, haven't they known all along that the church is opposed to the pro-death position of these baby killers .

    Do they really expect the church to change it's position to accommodate their wishes because of their numbers ,all twenty four of them, ?

    I suspect the rest of the congregation, of at least several thousands, is in full agreement with the bishop or they would have joined this bunch.

    If this continues and escalates into a confrontation with the Bishop on the churches teachings and they defy him I wonder will he have the courage to pronounce them separated from the Catholic Church and finally,if they fail to recant,excommunicate the whole bunch !The daemon is hard at work in America these days !
    Last edited by megimoo; 10-17-2008 at 11:16 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,852
    Quote Originally Posted by megimoo View Post
    [SIZE="3"]They can make much more noise by running to the MSM on every issue and remaining so called Catholics.

    If they are against the teachings of the church why do they remain Catholics .They should know that eventually a bishop with some courage will stand up and declare the the Church's true position .The Catholic Church has too long 'pussy footed 'around this issue because of political sensitivity's and now is the time to speak out and condemn it !
    In no universe that exists has the Catholic church ever pussyfooted around the abortion issue.

    Why are they surprised and why do they protest, haven't they known all along that the church is opposed to the pro-death position of these baby killers .
    I agree, they should know, but if I were going to church for 'spiritual refreshment', I would get a little annoyed at sermons about politics. One should and could come to the conclusion that there are issues upon which the POTUS or other elected officials will have a more immediate and severe impact, even though one may consider abortion deplorable... and that one can and in good conscience vote for a pro-choice candidate. If the church wants to fight abortion.. fine... they shouldnt be telling people the major deciding factor between candidates in every election has to be abortion, or its a sin. You can do the former without doing the latter.

    This article states that these people are actually pro-choice, so I don't know how they reconcile that... sounds like they should leave the church.

    Baby killer rhetoric is a little tiring... One simply cannot make that strong of a case for the idea that a early term fetus is anything deserving of human rights, or that destroying one is 'murder'... except to arbitrarily proclaim that it is murder. You have to at least recognize the fact that there are stronger (or as strong) arguments for the reverse.. that being the case... begrudging compromise is all that will ever be achieved.... unless one half of the country has a simultaneous epiphany.
    Last edited by wilbur; 10-17-2008 at 12:08 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    An Adversary of Linda #'s
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    22,891
    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    In no universe that exists has the Catholic church ever pussyfooted around the abortion issue.



    I agree, they should know, but if I were going to church for 'spiritual refreshment', I would get a little annoyed at sermons about politics. One should and could come to the conclusion that there are issues upon which the POTUS or other elected officials will have a more immediate and severe impact, even though one may consider abortion deplorable... and that one can and in good conscience vote for a pro-choice candidate. If the church wants to fight abortion.. fine... they shouldnt be telling people the major deciding factor between candidates in every election has to be abortion, or its a sin. You can do the former without doing the latter.

    This article states that these people are actually pro-choice, so I don't know how they reconcile that... sounds like they should leave the church.

    Baby killer rhetoric is a little tiring... One simply cannot make that strong of a case for the idea that a early term fetus is anything deserving of human rights, or that destroying one is 'murder'... except to arbitrarily proclaim that it is murder. You have to at least recognize the fact that there are stronger (or as strong) arguments for the reverse.. that being the case... begrudging compromise is all that will ever be achieved.... unless one half of the country has a simultaneous epiphany.
    "Baby killer rhetoric is a little tiring" learn to adjust to the expression for that is exactly what it is Willie.

    The expression pussy footing is appropiate to those political critters pandering to the Catholic vote and advocating baby killing .The Bishops have been loth to point them out and have pussyfooted around by not calling them Heretics .Don't be confused Willie they are full blown hypocrits and deserved to be called to task from the rooftops, if need be, by each and every Catholic Bishop in America .:D

    Definition :Heretics claim to still be following a religion (or to be the "true followers"), whereas apostates reject it entirely.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member GrumpyOldLady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    1,304
    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Good for them... Not for supporting Obama, but for breaking away from the Church on this issue
    If you break from the church on Abortion, then you have excommunicated yourself.
    They are now no longer 'catholics in good standing'.
    I'm sure that'll make some anti-catholic bigots very happy.

    But the fact is that these whackadoos are protesting in favor of MURDERING CHILDREN.
    Their souls are in danger. It's nothing to celebrate.
    If leftists didn't have double standards, they'd have no standards at all.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    3,852
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOldLady View Post
    If you break from the church on Abortion, then you have excommunicated yourself.
    They are now no longer 'catholics in good standing'.
    I'm sure that'll make some anti-catholic bigots very happy.

    But the fact is that these whackadoos are protesting in favor of MURDERING CHILDREN.
    Prove it. Prove that a freshly conceived egg deserves human rights.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Power CUer noonwitch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    11,865
    If the bishops didn't want to part with donations from pro-choice, wealthy catholics (like Kerry and Kennedy), they probably would excommunicate them. If they want the moral authority to teach the average catholic that voting for pro choice candidates is against the church's teachings, they have to be consistent with the wealthy catholics.

    As a liberal, I never understand why liberal catholics stay members of the church. My BIL was raised catholic, his parents are very devout, and he can't agree with the church on issues of abortion and birth control, so he no longer participates in the eucharist when he attends mass for a family function. The episcopalian church is ready and waiting for them, especially if they don't have issues about gay clergy.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •