#1 Chinese Subs Stalk US Air Craft Carrier George Washington (Obama's "foreign crisis?")
10-21-2008, 03:08 PM
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
Chinese Subs Stalk US Air Craft Carrier George Washington (Obama's "foreign crisis?")
"O.K. Send in the Fast Attack 688's and Hit Em With A Few MK 48' ADCAPS !"
October 21, 2008: Japan has increased anti-submarine patrols in international waters, just outside Japanese territorial waters. Chinese submarines are apparently exercising there more frequently, looking for Japanese, South Korean and American warships to play tag with. The U.S. has also redirected more of its space based naval search capabilities to assist the Japanese.
Chinese Song class diesel electric and Han class nuclear powered boats were detected and tracked recently. One of each of these was spotted stalking the American carrier USS George Washington, as it headed to South Korea for a visit.
China is rapidly acquiring advanced submarine building capabilities, and providing money (for fuel and spare parts) to send its subs to sea more often. Moreover, new classes of boats are constantly appearing. The new Type 39A, or Yuan class, looks just like the Russian Kilo class. In the late 1990s, the Chinese began ordering Russian Kilo class subs, then one of the latest diesel-electric design available. Russia was selling new Kilos for about $200 million each, which is about half the price other Western nations sell similar boats for. The Kilos weigh 2,300 tons (surface displacement), have six torpedo tubes and a crew of 57. They are quiet, and can travel about 700 kilometers under water at a quiet speed of about five kilometers an hour. Kilos carry 18 torpedoes or SS-N-27 anti-ship missiles (with a range of 300 kilometers and launched underwater from the torpedo tubes.) The combination of quietness and cruise missiles makes Kilo very dangerous to American carriers. North Korea and Iran have also bought Kilos.
The Chinese have already built two Yuans, the second one an improvement on the first. These two boats have been at sea to try out the technology that was pilfered from the Russians. A third Yuan is under construction, and it also appears to be a bit different from the first two. The first Yuan appeared to be a copy of the early model Kilo (the model 877), while the second Yuan (referred to as a Type 39B) appeared to copy the late Kilos (model 636). The third Yuan may end up being a further evolution, or Type 39C.
Preceding the Yuans was the the Type 39, or Song class. This was the first Chinese sub to have the teardrop shaped hull, and was based on the predecessor of the Kilo, the Romeo class. The Type 39A was thought to be just an improved Song, but on closer examination, especially by the Russians, it looked like a clone of the Kilos. The Yaun class also have AIP (Air Independent Propulsion), which allows non-nuclear boats to stay underwater for days at a time. China currently has 13 Song class, 12 Kilo class, one Yuan class and 32 Romeo class boats. There are only two Han class SSNs, as the Chinese are still having a lot of problems with nuclear power in subs. Despite that, the Hans are going to sea, even though they are noisy and easily detected by Western sensors.
10-21-2008, 03:12 PM
10-21-2008, 04:09 PM
- Join Date
- May 2008
- no-man's land in Texas
10-21-2008, 04:45 PM
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
These 688's are so .............. quiet that they can crawl up a Chinese boats ass and the Chinese skipper will never know it until he implodes in a great bubble of explosive gas !
Last edited by megimoo; 10-22-2008 at 12:33 PM.
10-21-2008, 04:49 PM
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
SSN-688 Los Angeles-class Design
These submarines were built in three successive variants:
SSNs 688-718 - Orginal Los Angeles class
SSNs 719-750 - Starting with SSN 719 and beyond the last 31 hulls of the class have 12 vertical launch tubes for the Tomahawk cruise missile, along with an upgraded reactor core which does not require refueling.
SSNs 751-773 -
The final 23 hulls [SSN 751 and later] referred to as "688I" (for improved), are quieter, incorporate an advanced BSY-1 sonar suite combat system and the ability to lay mines from their torpedo tubes.
They are configured for under-ice operations in that their forward diving planes have been moved from the sail structure to the bow and the sail has been strengthened for breaking through ice.
The submarines are outfitted with a wide variety of antennas, transmitters and receivers necessary to support accomplishment of their assigned tasks. Interior communication is possible on a wide range of circuits and sound powered phones which do not require electrical power and are reliable in battle situations. Various alarm and indicating circuits enable the Officer of the Deck and the Engineering Officer of the Watch to continuously monitor critical parameters and equipment located throughout the ship.
The nuclear power plant gives these boats the ability to remain deployed and submerged for extended periods of time.
To take advantage of this, the ship is outfitted with auxiliary equipment to provide for the needs of the crew. Atmosphere control equipment replenishes oxygen used by the crew, and removes carbon dioxide and other atmosphere contaminants.
The ship is equipped with two distilling plants which convert salt water to fresh water for drinking, washing and the propulsion plant.
Sustained operation of the complex equipment and machinery on the ship requires the support of repair parts carried on board. The ship carries enough food to feed a crew of over one hundred for as long as 90 days.
Los Angeles class submarines are divided into two watertight compartments.
The forward compartment houses all the living spaces, weapons systems, control centers, and sonar/fire control computers. The after compartment houses the nuclear reactor and the ship's propulsion equipment.
1. Engine Room.
The engine room houses all the propulsion machinery, as well as the Ship's Service Turbine Generators that supply the ship's electricity, and the evaporator, which distills water for the propulsion plant and other shipboard use.
2. Control Room/Attack Center.
Located in the upper level of the forward compartment is the control room--the heart of the ship. The Officer of the Deck stands his watch here, controlling all activities on board. In control, the ship's location is continually determined and plotted, the course and depth are controlled, and all sonar contacts are tracked.
The control room also functions as the attack center, where all of the ship's weapon systems are controlled from. The sail helps to add stability to the submerged vessel. Additionally it houses all of the periscopes and antennae. In the forward top portion of the sail is the bridge. When the ship is on the surface, the Officer of the Deck will shift his watch to the bridge. Here he has clear view of all the surrounding waters, in addition to getting a breath of fresh air and seeing the welcome sun.
4. Mess Decks, Berthing, and Wardroom.
The middle level of the forward compartment is dedicated to the crew's living spaces. Here is found the mess decks and galley which, when underway, serve four meals a day, one every six hours (allowing for all watchstanders to get a hot meal). Also here are the berthing spaces. Here is the only personal space that a crewman gets--his bed (known as a "rack".
These racks are stacked three tall throughout the berthing spaces and have only a curtain to close them off from the rest of the boat. With this as the only private area on board, it is not uncommon to find pictures of family and friends put up on the wall in a rack along with personal cassette and CD players for entertainment. The wardroom is the officers own room. Here is a big table around which the officers eat, train, and work.
The crew of a submarine is often more cohesive than that of a surface ship because of the close quarters submariners live in. There isn’t space on submarines for “Officers’ Country,” an area most surface ships set aside for the exclusive use of commissioned officers. Submarines also lack space for a “Chief’s Mess,” which means all enlisted Sailors eat together on the mess decks. On surface ships, senior enlisted Sailors eat in a separate area from their junior counterparts.
5. Torpedo Room. The lower level of the forward compartment is the Torpedo Room.
This room stores the ship's weapons which include Mk48 ADCAP torpedoes, Tomahawk cruise missiles, and mines. The torpedo room houses the handling equipment and access to the ship's four torpedo tubes. Weapons are moved from their stowage positions, loaded into the tubes, and readied for launch all in this room by the ship's Torpedomen. The torpedo room also houses controls for the vertical launch tubes which add 12 more Tomahawk cruise missiles to the ship's load.
6. Sonar Sphere. Housed in the very forward end of the submarine is the sonar sphere. This is an array of over 1,000 hydrophones which makes up part of the advanced BQQ-5E sonar suite. Out in front of the ship, positions the sphere as far as possible from the ship's own noise, thereby giving it the best listening conditions.
10-21-2008, 05:30 PM
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
Here compare the Russian Kilo And The American Los Angeles Class !
Kilo Class Submarine
Displacement (Surfaced) 2,325 metric tons
Displacement (Submerged) 3,076 metric tons
Length 74.3 m (70 m at waterline)
Beam 10 m
Draft 6.6 m
Crew 12 officers and 41 enlisted
Speed (Surfaced) 10 knots
Speed (Submerged) 17 knots
Range (surfaced) 6,000 nm at 7 knots
Range (submerged) 400 nm at 3 knots
Endurance 45 days
Torpedo 6 533mm torpedo tubes (2 capable of launching wire guided torpedos, all capable of launching mines)
Missile Provision for stowage of 1 9K32M Strela MANPADS or similar
Ammunition 18 torpedos or 24 mines and 8 missiles
SSN-688 Los Angeles-class
Specifications, Continously upgraded to meet future challanges
Builders Newport News Shipbuilding Co.
General Dynamics Electric Boat Division.
Endurance about three months .
It Depends on how much food they can carry !
Power Plant One S6G reactor
one shaft at 35,000 shp
Improved Performance Machinery Program Phase I [on 688 Improved]
Length 360 feet (109.73 meters)
Beam 33 feet (10 meters)
Displacement 6,927 tons (6210 metric tons) submerged
Speed Official: 20+ knots (23+ miles per hour, 36.8 +kph)
Actual: 32 knots maximum submerged speed
"Double that speed the Navy Lies "
Operating Depth official: "greater than 800 feet"
Double the depth The Navy Lies "
Actual: 950 feet [300 meters] test depth
Actual: 1475 feet [450 meters] collapse depth
Hull HY-80 Steel
Crew 13 Officers, 116 Enlisted
Armament Harpoon and Tomahawk ASM/LAM missiles from VLS tubes
MK-48 torpedoes from four 533-mm torpedo tubes (Seawolf has 8)
Combat Systems AN/BPS-5 surface search radar
AN/BPS-15 A/16 navigation and fire control radar
TB-16D passive towed sonar array (subsystem of BQQ-5)
TB-23 passive "thin line" towed array (subsystem of BQQ-5)
AN/BQG-5D wide aperture flank array
AN/BQQ-5D/E low frequency spherical sonar array OR
AN/BSY-1 spherical bow array [on SSN-751 and later]
AN/BQS-15 close range active sonar (for ice detection)
MIDAS Mine and Ice Detection Avoidance System
SADS-TG active detection sonar
Type 2 attack periscope (port)
Type 18 search periscope (starboard)
AN/BSY-1 (primary computer);
UYK-7; UYK-43; UYK-44
WLR-9 Acoustic Intercept Receiver
WLR-8(V)2 ES receiver
APX-72 IFF (transponder only)
Link 11 Tactical data link
OTCIXS Tactical data link
Unit Cost $900 million [1990 prices]
Unit Operating Cost
Annual Average ~$21,000,000 [source: [FY1996 VAMOSC]
Last edited by megimoo; 10-22-2008 at 01:07 PM.
10-22-2008, 08:48 AM
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
- Woodland Park, Colorado, United States
If I recall accurately, it was the Japanese who stole the technology (Hitachi?) and allowed the Russians and then other countries to make silent propellers to rival our quiet subs. It appears to be coming back to haunt them.Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
C. S. Lewis
Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
SonnabendGuest10-22-2008, 10:29 AMProbably not a good idea.
If a sub gets inside the exclusion zone, they are an unidentified threat and can be engaged and sunk at will.
Our Navy and the US have the same policy: inside a certain range, unidentified?
Prosecute and KILL.
We know it. The sub captain knows it. If he gets too close, the ships are well within their rights to send whoever it is to the bottom.
During the last navy open day we had here, a navy officer told me the story of how they tracked an unidentified submarine for about a day..using dipping sonar and then when a Collins class sub came into the picture, they lashed the bogey with sonar again and again.
Message was clear: come any closer and you are dead.
10-22-2008, 12:28 PM
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Lake Champlain
My prediction is that the Chinese will sink one of our aircraft carriers, and Obama will sit down and talk with them.
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