Thread: Berg Case against Obama Thrown out by Fed Judge

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  1. #101  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Okay, that's the third time you've used that label.

    Define "extreme right wing."..and since when do you speak for anyone else except yourself? I don't give a rats ass what you "think" people will agree with, if they want to tell me, they will, they are more than capable of speaking for themselves.
    Honestly Sonna, I don't know why you bother trying to reason with a liberal. You've got more tolerance than I do. Everyone else can see he's not really engaging you in debate, but throwing out platitudes and personal insults.

    While I agree he is good at this particular style of debate, it does get tiring pretty quickly.

    Oh, and C.W: since you obviously missed it, I wanted to clarify one point:
    Most men don't consider paying money to a woman to have her spend time with you or sleep with you a "conquest." Your definition may be different. Although this would suggest you consider paying money to go see a movie the equivalent to being invited to an opening premier.
     

  2. #102  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Just a few comments on this little diatribe.

    My, aren't we superior. I find it fascinating when you denigrate anyone who dares disagree with you by belittling them..that's a liberal meme "you're stupid".

    "Nothing to do?" It's Sunday night, dipshit. Office is closed.

    Legalise drugs? No.
    Legalise prostitution? Yes.
    Same sex marraige? HELL NO..
    A woman's freedom of choice: Abortion on demand? No.
    Separation of church and state: Null issue. Relevance?

    Well, yes, I tend to consider someone who wants to kill me and my family, who wants to bomb buses, schools, nightclubs ewtc as "evil"....I'd be interested in what you'd call Amrozi..a freedom fighter?

    Us vs Them? Yes.

    "Nuanced"? Is that your word for "theyre not terrorists or murderers, just misunderstood" "they're freedom fighters..the fact they murdered 3000 people is just blowback for what we did"..?

    You channelling Kerry?

    Pick up any paper recently and the leftist bias and agenda is plain as the nose on your face. You're telling me you believe the media is fair and balanced??

    Bwahahah!!!!!

    I can point to a hundred examples of media bias...here's another one for you. Remember the Israel Lebanon conflict? There were reports that the UN posts had been fired upon by the dastardly Israelis..what was ignored in the media even after it was reported to them was that the Lebanese were firing on them from those positions.

    Pallywood anyone? Green Helmet Guy?

    How about the sterling example of two BBC reporters who wanted to show the evils of the Israelis..and asked a ten year old boy to stand next to an unexploded 1000 lb bomb.

    Ask the average person in the street if they can trust the media, more than 80 percent will say NO. This is..news...to you?

    Re Palin, not interested in your opinion, we are well aware of where your ideals lie and the fact you have been here and actively shilling for Obama. Your sneering attitude towards her and the President is quite obvious.

    Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
    I gotta tell you. I don't think I could have written a parody of the extreme right-wing to match what you just posted! :D Perfect, right down to the "if you don't like Palin, you must support Obama" meme, the stated government-backed morals beliefs, and the name-calling. God, you are a prize!

    As to my comment regarding "low self-esteem," don't you find it a little abnormal that an internets poster would observe another's political tendencies and the second would rush out to take an internet quiz to prove the first wrong? I find that just shouts to the rooftops, "I'm insecure." BTW, I can take that test and score in any of the four quadrants depending on where I want to end up.

    Finally, just out of curiousity, what's your definition of extreme right-wing? Or does such a thing exist?
    Last edited by Cold Warrior; 10-26-2008 at 10:19 AM.
     

  3. #103  
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    Tell ya what CW, why don't you take the time and address the points I raised instead.

    G'night.
     

  4. #104  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    The extreme right-wing mirrors the extreme left in that it tends to view the world in terms of "good vs evil," "us vs them," "black vs white," when, in fact, the world is much more nuanced (it's not a 1950s comic book; even Stan Lee knew that in the 60s). As a result of this view, extreme (right|left) wingers have tendencies to believe that life fits their ideology. Extreme left-wingers, for example, believe that GWB stole the elections through the use of Diebold, as such a belief fits their world view that since their side is "correct" there is no fair way they could lose. Extreme right wingers believe, for example, in a coordinated media conspiracy to foster leftist candidates and views and to defeat their champions, for exactly the same reason.

    To focus upon the right-wingers and to provide a case-in-point from this board, one need only to look at McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate. I have often pointed out that the choice has gained him votes among the Republican base who might have sat out the election otherwise. That is an opinion generally shared here. However, when I point out that it has cost him votes among establishment conservatives, moderates, and independents, citing many, many well-known conservatives as proof (Will, Parker, Noonan, Buckley),
    I agree with a lot of what you've stated here. But there are a couple of points I where I diverge from your view. It's true that many conservatives have come out against the pick of Palin. Will and Noonan are two of my favorite conservative writers. But unlike Buckley, I can't see those two or many other traditional, small government conseratives voting for a big government liberal like Obama, or third party simply in protest. So there's a little disagreement whether their disappointment in McCain has cost him their vote. But there's no doubt that a Palin pick was risky and history may judge that the gamble did not pay off. It's also quite possible that picking Lieberman would have been a worse mistake. It's even likely that had he run the most perfect of campaigns for a republican, he still could have come up short.

    Secondly, I disagree with your assumption about the views of moderates mirroring those of your own, which you've described as social libertarian. I know many self described moderates, and their views don't always fall in line with your outline of them. It's quite possible to be personally against abortion or prostitution and still favor a strong government. I have a close friend who shares many conservative values but calls himself a democrat because he hates and distrusts big corporations.

    The disagreement between you and many conservatives on this board seems to be that you believe McCain should have chosen a more moderate candidate to appeal to the center. Yet many conservatives feel McCain is already too moderate himself. (i.e. his mortgage bailout plan, McCain - Feingold, etc.). How could you expect that they'd go along with moving the party so far to the left simply to appeal to the center?

    Since Lieberman seems to be a better fit for you, I maintain that the Dems have less of a distance to travel to arrive at your coordinates. To me, Lieberman isn't really a departure for them, he represents what they've moved away from. So I'm kind of confused why you don't believe your efforts aren't better spent trying to move a party that has more in agreement with you a short distance back to where they came from, rather than moving a party that's farther from you, a good bit of distance toward a place they've never been.
     

  5. #105  
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    "Hinterlands", "flyover", "the farm"...CW...why do you hate America? :D
    /toadie
     

  6. #106  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygirl View Post
    "Hinterlands", "flyover", "the farm"...CW...why do you hate America? :D
    /toadie
    I don't think you've got this toadie thing down quite right yet. :D
     

  7. #107  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    I don't think you've got this toadie thing down quite right yet. :D
    I'll try harder, but I'm not drinking that nasty scotch you elitists are fond of.
     

  8. #108  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shannon View Post
    Jesus wept.
    So did Berg.
    Be Not Afraid.
     

  9. #109  
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    First, let me thank you for your reasoned, rational response. It's a bit of a relief after dealing with previous posters in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lager View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you've stated here. But there are a couple of points I where I diverge from your view. It's true that many conservatives have come out against the pick of Palin. Will and Noonan are two of my favorite conservative writers. But unlike Buckley, I can't see those two or many other traditional, small government conseratives voting for a big government liberal like Obama, or third party simply in protest. So there's a little disagreement whether their disappointment in McCain has cost him their vote. But there's no doubt that a Palin pick was risky and history may judge that the gamble did not pay off. It's also quite possible that picking Lieberman would have been a worse mistake. It's even likely that had he run the most perfect of campaigns for a republican, he still could have come up short.
    I agree with you that McCain was between a "rock and a hard place," in the sense that the extreme right of his party distrusted him, so to pick up their votes (as opposed to allowing them to stay at home) he needed to pick an "anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, anti-sex" (well, in the case of everyone excepting immediate family) candidate. My read of him is that he would have liked to have picked Lieberman or Ridge, but the "base" would have gone crazy. My observation, however, that I've been attacked here for making is that in making the choice he did, he cost himself significant votes amongst establishment Republicans, moderates, and independents. This is a result not only of Palin's extreme views, but also of the perception that McCain pandered to politics, hardly the right image for a "maverick."

    Quote Originally Posted by Lager View Post
    Secondly, I disagree with your assumption about the views of moderates mirroring those of your own, which you've described as social libertarian. I know many self described moderates, and their views don't always fall in line with your outline of them. It's quite possible to be personally against abortion or prostitution and still favor a strong government. I have a close friend who shares many conservative values but calls himself a democrat because he hates and distrusts big corporations.
    I don't think that most suburban soccer moms and other "moderate" demographics share all of my views, and that's why, although I pointed out to Sonna that true social libertarians favored legalization of drugs (hell, WFB favored legalizing marijuiana) and prostitution, I was careful not to include those in the list of Palin's attributes to which I think moderates object. I think all demographics show that most of America is "comfortable" with the legal status of abortion, although many who look think that Roe v Wade was a flawed decision (Alan Dershowitz, included). However, any move towards a consitutional amendment outlawing abortion is seen by the vast majority of Americans as extreme. Similar views are held against Palin's stand on gay marriage (she doesn't seem to even favor civil unions) and abstinence-only education. Moreover, her demonstrated ignorance on things like economics (that answer she gave to the "evil" Katy Couric was just wretched), supreme court decisions, and foreign policy have also alienated a good deal of "thinking," as opposed to emotional (on either side) America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lager View Post
    The disagreement between you and many conservatives on this board seems to be that you believe McCain should have chosen a more moderate candidate to appeal to the center. Yet many conservatives feel McCain is already too moderate himself. (i.e. his mortgage bailout plan, McCain - Feingold, etc.). How could you expect that they'd go along with moving the party so far to the left simply to appeal to the center?

    Since Lieberman seems to be a better fit for you, I maintain that the Dems have less of a distance to travel to arrive at your coordinates. To me, Lieberman isn't really a departure for them, he represents what they've moved away from. So I'm kind of confused why you don't believe your efforts aren't better spent trying to move a party that has more in agreement with you a short distance back to where they came from, rather than moving a party that's farther from you, a good bit of distance toward a place they've never been.
    If McCain had picked Lieberman, I would have voted for that ticket without hesitation. If Biden had won the Dim primary and picked Lieberman, the same. However, you misjudge me and the Republican party, I believe. The Democrats have moved so far towards big government, nanny-state, "blame America" politics that I think they are pretty much unredemable. However, and unfortunately, the Repubs seem to be moving towards the God, Guns, and (no-)Gays stance represented probably best by Huckaboom, Palin, and Fox News. I think at some point in the future you will see an alliance between the few national defense, limited government, secular Democrats and the establishment, northeastern, meritocratic Republicans, i.e., the true realization of Clinton and Blair's "third way," rather than seeing either party shift dramatically towards the center.
     

  10. #110  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillygirl View Post
    I'll try harder, but I'm not drinking that nasty scotch you elitists are fond of.
    Hey! I've only had two today. But, it's only 4:30 after all. :D
     

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