Thread: "Even though culture changes, God's word doesn't change."

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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic Rose View Post
    How can one preach about forgiveness and salvation without also preaching about sin?
    It's an interesting question, all right. One that has sparked some pretty heated debate and some pretty profound doctrine within Christian churches.
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member cat714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliCon View Post
    I went to the website. This is the type of tone I would like to see among both sides, but that's not what is going on here in California...at least that is not what the media is portraying.

    Everything GCN puts out will be subject to their interpetation of the Bible. I take is as that, just like I have my own views. As far as debating with you, I'm not going to beat that dead horse. It's just like the abortion issue. We can go back and forth all day long, but none of our positions are going to change.

    My church has not had a sermon about homosexuality. The priests talk a lot about being good citizens, strengthening our faith and family bonds, avoiding sin, being good neighbors, etc, but nothing I would consider hateful or controversal.
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  3. #23  
    Senior Member cat714's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic Rose View Post
    How can one preach about forgiveness and salvation without also preaching about sin?
    I'm with you on that one.
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  4. #24  
    Super Moderator Constitutionally Speaking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Quick everyone, grab your pitchforks and torches! Let's go bash some of them dirty gays!


    Preaching that homosexuality is not God's plan is NOT hate Wilbur. Are you such a dullard that this concept escapes you???
    I long for the days when our President actually liked our country.
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  5. #25  
    Senior Member wulfpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic Rose View Post
    Sinful behavior remains sinful behavior. Jesus granted forgiveness, and continues to do so, but he does not change what constitutes a sin. Adultery, pre-marital sex, homosexual sex, theft, lying, etc. are all still considered sinful behavior, but God happily and willingly forgives those who repent, as should we all. The issue arises when those participating in sinful behavior begin insisting that we no longer consider it a sin.

    The books that are included in the New Testament are the same for all Christians, as far as I know, and while there are different translations, as far as I know, they keep the same substantive meaning. Jesus doesn't say "go kill your enemies" in one and "turn your cheek" in another. The Word of God (which, by the way, is a way to refer to Jesus) has not changed. It has been translated so that people can understand it, but if you go to Greek, or the Hebrew, it still stays the same.

    Regarding the Apocryphal books, if you can find me a piece of Doctrine or Dogma that varies between denominations based on one the Apocryphal books I would be happy to discuss it with you, but to invalidate the entire Bible because some churches have excluded certain books is ridiculous.
    I agree. The 1511 king james translation can be further refined by using the 'strongs concordance' reference book. The strongs concordance was written using the jewish 'massera', a book that literally 'tied-down' the exact meanings of every word of the scriptures. For example, so the reader wouldn't confuse 'too' with 'two' or 'to'. It's also a little known fact that the first six books of the Torah, the Bible, and the Quran are essentially the same scriptures.
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wulfpaw View Post
    The section of scripture concerning gays is in the first few chapters of the book of 'romans'. Later in the scriptures, Christ would say 'I have not come to change one jot or tiddle of the law' (Tiddle = accent mark over a single letter). In 'romans' it says even those who say there's nothing wrong with gays deserve death. One of my sisters is gay. I can see why these people were hated. She has a really nasty personality, and if you call her on it she falls back onto the whole gay-bashing hater routine. I avoid her like the plague.
    Uh, oh...


    No more lobster bisque for you!!!
    Last edited by Cold Warrior; 11-13-2008 at 06:29 AM.
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  7. #27  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    Preaching that homosexuality is not God's plan is NOT hate Wilbur. Are you such a dullard that this concept escapes you???
    The problem is that when it's mentioned most often in Christian churches it's not mentioned as - this is not what's best - it's mentioned as YOU'RE GOING TO BURN if you are one - AND the old favorite: Gay's can't be Christians!
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  8. #28  
    CU's Tallest Midget! PoliCon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cat714 View Post
    I went to the website. This is the type of tone I would like to see among both sides, but that's not what is going on here in California...at least that is not what the media is portraying.
    Well the media is going to report the most sensational of all the stories they can find on the issue - it's the nature of the MSM to hate anything conservative or values oriented.


    Everything GCN puts out will be subject to their interpetation of the Bible. I take is as that, just like I have my own views.
    GCN is not monolithic is their views. I don't know if you read the articles on the side A/side B debate - but if you are interested at all in being able to reach people - you should.


    As far as debating with you, I'm not going to beat that dead horse.
    That's good because I hate the needless abuse of dead animals. I mean if you're going to beat a horse - at least make sure it's alive and can feel the beating!

    It's just like the abortion issue. We can go back and forth all day long, but none of our positions are going to change.
    Discussions do not have to be about changing - they can be about understanding too. :) But I will not force anyone.

    My church has not had a sermon about homosexuality. The priests talk a lot about being good citizens, strengthening our faith and family bonds, avoiding sin, being good neighbors, etc, but nothing I would consider hateful or controversal.
    Great! Mind you though - Jesus brought some very serious controversy when he spoke . . . . ;)
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gingersnap View Post
    It's an interesting question, all right. One that has sparked some pretty heated debate and some pretty profound doctrine within Christian churches.
    GOD came to heal sinners .Without sinners how can there be forgiveness ?The simple answer is we, all of us, fall short of our potential as created by GOD and therefore sin against his creation .If you are free of sin by your own definitions then you have no need,in your mind,of salvation and by extention no need of Jesus and his love and forgiveness !
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member EricMartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOldLady View Post
    Actually, the bible has changed a lot over the past 1700 years.

    Martin Luther himself butchered it.

    Different religious groups have changed words and contexts and even deleated whole books in order to push their own agendas.

    Different cultures have reworded it.

    Now we have 'feminist' bibles, 'inclusive language bibles', and bibles for every group you can think of.

    The 'original bible' of ~ 350 that was put out by the Catholic Church just isn't around anymore.
    I agree – just as fallible bureaucrats have butchered the Constitution, fallible priests have butchered the Bible. Thomas Jefferson wrote to John Adams about this in 1814.

    The whole history of these books is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.
    Shortly thereafter he proceeded to "pick out the diamonds from the dunghill", and wrote "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth", more commonly known as the "Jefferson Bible".

    Here he writes about it in more detail:
    In extracting the pure principles which he [Jesus] taught, we should have to strip off the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests, who have travestied them into various forms, as instruments of riches and power to themselves. We must dismiss the Platonists and Plotinists, the Stagyrites and Gamalielites, the Eclectics, the Gnostics and Scholastics, their essences and emanations, their logos and demiurges, aeons and daemons, male and female, with a long train of … or, shall I say at once, of nonsense. We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill. The result is an octavo of forty-six pages, of pure and unsophisticated doctrines.
    As I mentioned in my opening post I am still educating myself in theology (currently reading the Summa Theologica) and have not yet embraced any particular Christian denomination. For the time being I have found the Jefferson Bible to be an outstanding basis of morality – I predict that it shall remain so to me.
    Last edited by EricMartin; 11-13-2008 at 08:45 PM.
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