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  1. #1 Far beyond abortion 
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    lynyrd_skynyrd (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 08:29 PM
    Original message
    Far beyond abortion
    Broader medical refusal rule may go far beyond abortion

    The outgoing Bush administration is planning to announce a broad new "right of conscience" rule permitting medical facilities, doctors, nurses, pharmacists and other healthcare workers to refuse to participate in any procedure they find morally objectionable, including abortion and possibly even artificial insemination and birth control.

    I swear this man is going to make sure he literally sets fire to the White House before he leaves.
    And we can predict the response, can't we?
    Warpy (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 08:31 PM
    Response to Original message
    1. What a friend we have in Jebus
    Now he saves us the trouble of doing our JOBS.

    People with morbid religious scruples need to find another line of work.
    DoctorMyEyes (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 08:35 PM
    Response to Reply #1
    3. Really
    I what other profession can you get away with shit like this? If you can't or won't do the damn job do something else.
    Hmmm..............Muslim meat packers for one........for another Muslim check out ladies who refuse to handle pork as people check out.

    Just because it involves health care doesn't make it more important that they be forced to do what is against their conscience.

    Here's the usual crude feminist comment.

    lizerdbits (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 08:38 PM
    Response to Original message
    5. As a woman who takes BCPs
    to avoid being so bloated I have to wear a size larger pants and not have 3 month periods I say go fuck yourself asshole. And aside from that, my uterus is none of his fucking business. Maybe someone should start "Fundy Pharmacy" for these nuts who refuse to find another profession that works with their beliefs.
    Here's the slippery slope argument they denounce whenever a conservative uses it.
    bushwentawol (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 08:39 PM
    Response to Original message
    6. But what if someone were to claim moral objection to giving an 85-year old open-heart surgery?
    What if a caregiver objects to the thought of performing major surgery on someone who's days are numbered? What if someone objects to allowing a patient to live, but only in a vegetative state?
    This may give the fundies more rule over the womb and vagina but me thinks the law of unintended consequences will come into play after awhile.
    gollygee (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 08:41 PM
    Response to Reply #6
    7. Or refused to give a kidney transplant to someone over a certain age
    Or refused to perform surgery on someone who smokes, or drinks, or is overweight?
    However it's not a "slippery slope" that a Christian will get into...................but socialized medicine......you know "free health care for all" will definitely slide right down this slope. They don't seem to care about it in that instance, now do they?
    Bobbieo (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 08:42 PM
    Response to Reply #6
    8. Bush literally hates Americans - look at all the nasty names we have
    been calling him over the past 8 years and he is going to get even any way he can!!! He is a vindictive bastard.
    Hey, Bobbieo just because liberals do this all the time doesn't mean conservatives do it. Projection and all that.......
    impeachdubya (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 08:51 PM
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    12. All the more reason for Obama & the Democratic Congress to make Plan B and Oral Contraceptives OTC.
    Jesus-drunk pharmacists refuse to fill womens' prescriptions? Fine. Make it available without one.

    Fuck. Enough, already.
    I'm sure that will go over well with the FDA. High blood pressure, blood clots and all that.
    Idealist Hippie (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 09:11 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    20. People who object to filling prescriptions shouldn't become pharmacists. Not rocket surgery, here.
    If they can't do the job, they need to go into a different line of work, not hang around and try to force their dim-witted beliefs onto other people.
    impeachdubya (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 09:12 PM
    Response to Reply #17
    22. No, they should not be forced against their will to, say, fill prescriptions they don't like.
    They should be completely free to find another line of work.
    I believe there is somewhat of a shortage of pharmacists. Libs would prefer that their town or favorite pharmacy HAVE NO PHARACIST, rather than have one that refuses to dispense a handful of medications.
    BrklynLiberal (1000+ posts) Tue Dec-02-08 09:20 PM
    Response to Original message
    24. I hope that Obama can reinstate separation of church and state, and
    force physicians to abide by their Hippocratic oath.

    This is DISGUSTING!!!!!!!
    This issue is one of the main reasons many liberals hate Christians. And God.
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  2. #2  
    The EU already restricts health care for the middle-aged and elderly, smokers, and those who can't benefit from a given treatment in the statistical majority of cases. This why the cancer cure/survival rate in the EU is so low.

    No one is ever forced to have reproductive sex outside of rape. While I personally believe that impregnated rape/incest victims should release their children into closed adoption, I know that some can't or won't go there.

    In terms of consensual reproductive sex, it seems as though the participants can and should make a little extra effort to resolve their problems on their own. If a medical person refuses to perform an abortion (or offer a chemical alternative), I don't see that as being much different from refusing to represent a serial killer in a private practice law firm or refusing to accommodate the dietary needs of a subculture in a private grocery store.

    If the government can force medical practitioners to work against their own moral values, the government can impose its own moral values on YOU.

    Any fat, old, lazy, occasional drinkers who don't much care for veggies, exercise, or internal exams should take note.
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  3. #3  
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    umm I'm not clear on this here because according to the licenses I hold in a couple states, I have the right to refuse to participate in the care of someone if it is against my moral/ethical/relegious beliefs. That doesn't mean of course that I can refuse to provide life saving care if needed, only that I can refuse to perform abortions for instance if it is against my value system. Since I've been licensed since 1987, this is not a new thing, am I missing something here?
    I smile because I don't know what the heck is going on.
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  4. #4  
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    "Or refused to perform surgery on someone who smokes, or drinks, or is overweight?"
    Haven't some liberals already proposed something like that in all seriousness?

    Yet more anti- Christian hate mongering.
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  5. #5  
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    A little off the subject but is it okay for my insurance company to say they will pay for this medication, but will not pay for the one my doctor presecribed, then suggest an alternative? My pharmacist gives me a great discount but the point is I have prescription coverage and no dim-wit who doesn't know me from Adam's cat should be making decisions regarding which medication I take. I have an excellent medical team which included my doctors and my pharmacist and I don't need anyone else making decisions regarding my health, especially the government.
    Most of our happiness depends on our disposition not on circumstances.- Martha Washington
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  6. #6  
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    They don't get it do they.

    The reason professionals are allowed to object to performing services on the basis of morality is because the professional may not provide his best services if he believes what he is doing is morally wrong.

    Lawyers (even court appointed) can withdraw from representing a defendant if they have moral objections that would prevent them from giving their best effort.
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Living in La View Post
    A little off the subject but is it okay for my insurance company to say they will pay for this medication, but will not pay for the one my doctor presecribed, then suggest an alternative?
    Probably. Get out your agreement and read it. Quite a few insurers specify generic drugs except in specific cases or have other kinds of restrictions. You have to watch out for yourself. Your policy might pay for an amputation, for instance, but fail to cover the needed prosthetic.;)
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  8. #8  
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    Hmmm..............Muslim meat packers for one........for another Muslim check out ladies who refuse to handle pork as people check out.

    Just because it involves health care doesn't make it more important that they be forced to do what is against their conscience.
    But they have every right to express their religious beliefs at the expense of employers and inconvinence of customers. It's only evil Christians who should be denied. What are the moonbats going to do when Muslim doctors and pharmacists decide to start their own class actions suits to not have to perform these procedures or dispense these drugs? Then where will the calls of "my uterus is none of your business" be?
    Romans 6:18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

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  9. #9  
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    Can employers ask prospective employees about whether they have any religious objections to any products that may be sold at the store? Can they refuse to hire someone who won't dispense birth control pills without being sued?

    If so, then let the stores decide what they are going to sell and what they aren't, and let the market decide who will stay in business and who won't.
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  10. #10  
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    "I hope that Obama can reinstate separation of church and state,"
    So, DUmmie, you want him to reinstate something which was never in the Constitution to begin with, and which would undoubtedly be used to deny people their 1st Amendment rights (Since the 1st Amendment covers both Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion), just to hit at these believers who, though you may disagree with them, are exercising their rights?
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