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  1. #1 Are we headed to war with Iran? 
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    https://criminalsandliars.wordpress....er-government/

    ...Trump fired Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Steven Goldstein on Tuesday, citing fundamental differences between the Texan and the President on a whole host of issues, including the Iran deal, refugee resettlement, North Korea, and many others. Media reports also claimed that Tillerson had called the president a “moron” and had been working behind the scenes to foil or obstruct his agenda.

    Tillerson’s chief of staff Margaret Peterlin and deputy chief of staff Christine Ciccone resigned the same day as well. Tillerson’s aide Brian Hook remains as Director of Policy Planning, although it is highly likely that he too will soon be terminated.

    Trump’s replacement was CIA Director Mike Pompeo, a West Point graduate and highly decorated former congressman. Nominated to lead the CIA was Gina Haspel. The NYT, a propaganda organ for the Democrat Party, immediately launched a campaign to discredit her and kill her confirmation by the Senate.

    The broader picture appeared to be a consolidation by President Trump, and a solidifying of control by him over the various pieces of the machinery of government. It also appeared to signal an escalation in the relationship with Iran. While Tillerson saw no problem with the Obama-Iran deal promoted by Ben “Echo Chamber” Rhodes, Pompeo’s thinking was more in line with President Trump’s, who views it as “disastrous” and “one of the worst in history”. The move appears to foreshadow a tearing up of the deal and increased pressure against Iran, perhaps in the form of sanctions.....
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    No more so than going to war with NoKo. Iran like NoKo is a rogue country. But there are still a LOT of people that remember the days when Iran was good friends with the US. Jimmy Carter screwed that deal up . Now the govt of Iran is another radical muslim group the people not so much. I think the US would let Israel be the lead dog on Iran, if they take action we will and should walk with them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Cowboy View Post
    No more so than going to war with NoKo. Iran like NoKo is a rogue country. But there are still a LOT of people that remember the days when Iran was good friends with the US. Jimmy Carter screwed that deal up . Now the govt of Iran is another radical muslim group the people not so much. I think the US would let Israel be the lead dog on Iran, if they take action we will and should walk with them.
    As much as I dislike Carter, he didn't screw that up. The radical jihadis did when they put Khomeini in power. The days of Iran being a friend ended the minute the Shah was deposed. What Carter's ineptitude did was give them clout when the attempt to rescue the hostages went to shit. This made us look week and them look strong in the process. And there was no reason for a clandestine mission. Had Reagan been in office(which he nearly was), it would have been a full military strike to get them out but instead, Carter tried to make nice while putting people in charge of the mission that had no clue. Make no mistake, releasing the hostages on the day Reagan was inaugurated was no coincidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Cowboy View Post
    No more so than going to war with NoKo. Iran like NoKo is a rogue country. But there are still a LOT of people that remember the days when Iran was good friends with the US. Jimmy Carter screwed that deal up . Now the govt of Iran is another radical muslim group the people not so much. I think the US would let Israel be the lead dog on Iran, if they take action we will and should walk with them.
    I'm not so sure on that. Remember that the PNAC plan included taking out Iran. Cheney, if you recall, wanted US boots on the ground in Iran by 2005. It was only the fact that the military protested the plan that eventually it was shelved--or, rather, replaced with Condi Rice and the CIA's plan of "green" elections. The CIA did its best to oust Ahmadinejad through a crooked election and lost when the mullahs stood their ground and backed him.

    I keep seeing Bolton's name bandied around Trump circles, and that guy has a hard on for war with Iran. This is my worry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJCardFan View Post
    As much as I dislike Carter, he didn't screw that up. The radical jihadis did when they put Khomeini in power. The days of Iran being a friend ended the minute the Shah was deposed. What Carter's ineptitude did was give them clout when the attempt to rescue the hostages went to shit. This made us look week and them look strong in the process. And there was no reason for a clandestine mission. Had Reagan been in office(which he nearly was), it would have been a full military strike to get them out but instead, Carter tried to make nice while putting people in charge of the mission that had no clue. Make no mistake, releasing the hostages on the day Reagan was inaugurated was no coincidence.
    Dimmy was a bleeding heart liberal who was a turn the cheek kind of guy, he allowed the mess over there and never did anything to show strength. I knew and went to school with more than a few of the Iranian officers. In fact knew them well spending almost a year with them, I know well what they thought of the US and it was in high regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    I'm not so sure on that. Remember that the PNAC plan included taking out Iran. Cheney, if you recall, wanted US boots on the ground in Iran by 2005. It was only the fact that the military protested the plan that eventually it was shelved--or, rather, replaced with Condi Rice and the CIA's plan of "green" elections. The CIA did its best to oust Ahmadinejad through a crooked election and lost when the mullahs stood their ground and backed him.

    I keep seeing Bolton's name bandied around Trump circles, and that guy has a hard on for war with Iran. This is my worry.
    I know Bolton well, spent 2 weeks with him and a fact finding mission in the ME, I like the guy and yes he is tough and hard. I don't see Bolton as the pick, but could certain support that. He more of a man in the trenches than sitting atop the heap as Sec State.
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    I don't think we need to go to war with Iran. Sooner or later, the people are going to overthrow the mullahs. Massive protests haven't worked, those who truly want to end the mullahs' rule will need to start infiltrating the Iranian military. Once they have the numbers and can take power, then we can help them keep it. There are probably ways we can encourage them to do so without doing so publicly. And who's to say that we aren't doing that through intelligence networks and all. But the majority of the people in Iran want to be rid of the fanatics' rule, they just don't want the bloodshed of another revolution.


    Any intervention that we start will just become a big mess. We wouldn't have the kind of international cooperation from the UK or EU nations that we had with Iraq and Afghanistan. Canada probably wouldn't even back us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noonwitch View Post
    I don't think we need to go to war with Iran. Sooner or later, the people are going to overthrow the mullahs. Massive protests haven't worked, those who truly want to end the mullahs' rule will need to start infiltrating the Iranian military. Once they have the numbers and can take power, then we can help them keep it. There are probably ways we can encourage them to do so without doing so publicly. And who's to say that we aren't doing that through intelligence networks and all. But the majority of the people in Iran want to be rid of the fanatics' rule, they just don't want the bloodshed of another revolution.


    Any intervention that we start will just become a big mess. We wouldn't have the kind of international cooperation from the UK or EU nations that we had with Iraq and Afghanistan. Canada probably wouldn't even back us.
    I'm not so sure that the Iranian people have any more ability to retake their own government than we do to retake ours. The mullahs, no doubt, are up to date on 21st century control techniques, including Big Data. Remember, the current government of Iran has been in power since most of us here were teenagers. (Or, at least, much younger than we are now!) I don't think they are going anywhere.

    I do not believe the US should put any boots on the ground in Iran. Our troops are still in Afghanistan and Iraq, which were both EASIER to quell than Iran would be. That is my concern about Bolton. The return of any neocons is of concern to me. They were never real conservatives--just neoliberals with a hawk streak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Cowboy View Post
    Dimmy was a bleeding heart liberal who was a turn the cheek kind of guy, he allowed the mess over there and never did anything to show strength. I knew and went to school with more than a few of the Iranian officers. In fact knew them well spending almost a year with them, I know well what they thought of the US and it was in high regard.
    "Was in" or "wasn't"?


    I know Bolton well, spent 2 weeks with him and a fact finding mission in the ME, I like the guy and yes he is tough and hard. I don't see Bolton as the pick, but could certain support that. He more of a man in the trenches than sitting atop the heap as Sec State.
    But whose interests does Bolton represent? I'm not so sure it's the good of the American military, which would not be able to take over Iran.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Cowboy View Post
    No more so than going to war with NoKo.
    Rand Paul, apparently, thinks differently:

    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/973955593395494912
    What I liked about candidate Trump was his strong condemnation of the Iraq War. I believe President Trump has done a great job, and I continue to support him, but I cannot endorse his nomination of people who loved the Iraq War so much that they want an Iran War next.

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    Iran just lost their biggest Naval-ship, stranded on a jetty during a storm. It broke-up. They have no coast-guard, no salvage knowledge...

    The Damavand was the second of what was supposed to be a class of seven ships and entered service in 2013. A third, a slightly larger, version of this type of ship (Sahand) has a hull built but not much else because of budget problems. The first ship of this class, Jamaran, is based in the Persian Gulf, with most of the Iranian Navy, which consists mostly of small coastal missile boats, small locally built submarines and lots of speedboats manned by fanatic members of the IRGC (Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps).

    Knock-out the speedboats, knock-out the fanatics.

    There are some serious quality problems with Iranian built warships, and not just because of budget problems and sanctions. Iran's naval shipbuilding facility at the Bushehr shipyard has lots of labor problems. There have been strikes and lockouts as well as complaints of poor designs and sloppy management. Iran has, for the last two decades, announced many new, locally made, weapons that turned out to be more spin than substance.

    And that's just one branch of their 'armed forces'.

    https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/ht.../20180314.aspx
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