Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1 Black Law Students: 2/3 are in the BOTTOM 15% of class 
    Power CUer
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    22,615
    Remember Professor Amy Wax? Remember she was taken out of her long time teaching assignment at UPenn Law School. Why? For speaking the truth.
    Why Was Professor Amy Wax Punished?
    https://www.mindingthecampus.org/201...-wax-punished/

    ...It should no longer be surprising that progressives want to ban or silence views that make them uncomfortable, but it is nevertheless striking that in this case, Professor Wax’s offense consisted of nothing more than stating, in effect, that her personal observations confirmed the findings of Richard Sander’s and Stuart Taylor’s... Mismatch: How Affirmative Action Hurts Students It’s Intended to Help, and Why Universities Won’t Admit It.

    Two-thirds of Black Students in Bottom 15%

    Sander’s empirical analyses, summarized here, found, for example, that “two-thirds of black [law] students end up in that bottom 15%” of their classes and that that “the median black student at all of the schools using substantial racial preferences had an LGPA that placed her within only the sixth percentile of the white students. In other words, 94 percent of whites were getting better grades than the median black. Conversely, only about 10 percent of all black students were making it into the top half of their classes.”
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    Power CUer
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    22,615
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    FL & MO
    Posts
    53,110
    The Libtard standard response...

    RACIST!!!!!!

    May the FORCE be with you!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    724
    For years I was in a position that we hired a lot of people. Primarily they were IT engineers and Business analyst's, techies and folks with non engineering degrees.

    In spite of hiring a lot of folks, very few were minorities. As the head guy I was always the last guy to interview the people and I interviewed 100%. Overall just off the top of my head I would say less than 10% of the people that applied were any kind of minority to include women.

    Let me add, that I was also the one who approved our search ads. I was always of a strong belief that the ad is the first screening, so our ads were well written, specific in what we were looking for in the way of experience and knowledge. NOTE I put MORE emphasis on experience than knowledge, degrees etc.

    Our ads placed in the Metro DC and greater Norfolk area of Va often would not get more than 5 responses in a month with a 4x4 ad!

    Interesting facts: Those that responded came in 2 flavors: Having the knowledge, experience and background to do the job and those who pegged near zero on anything????? In fact some of those folks literally had not idea. I think it was just folks that answered ads based upon compensation. Most of my folks were making low 6 figures and this was in the late 80's and early 90's. Today, those same people would be lucky to make in the high 5 figures. I learned to NOT hire anyone with a Major in Computer Science, minor only, and my preferred choice was a BBA in Business with a minor in Computer science or other engineering or Music minor.

    My guidance to all was that we gave any and every minority better than a fair shake with the KEY factor being was could they come in and work on our team, we would send them to school to learn what we did, which was some very advanced for the times software and database design and development.
    Don
    Major US Army Infantry (RET)
    Hill Country of Texas

    Conservative, Constitutionalist, Capitalist, Christian. I speak: John Wayne, Johnny Cash and John Deere...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    The Swamps of N. Florida
    Posts
    26,150
    It's not about facts with liberals, it's about the narrative and the feelings that drive the narrative. The narrative is that everyone is equal when in fact people are not equal. Everyone has abilities but these abilities differ with each person. Freedom to use one's special skills should be the goal not the attempt to insure that everyone abilities are the same. A quote for Jordan Peterson, "If we are free we can't be equal and if we are all equal then we can't be free."
    Liberals! The real fascists.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Power CUer
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    22,615
    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Cowboy View Post
    For years I was in a position that we hired a lot of people. Primarily they were IT engineers and Business analyst's, techies and folks with non engineering degrees.

    In spite of hiring a lot of folks, very few were minorities. As the head guy I was always the last guy to interview the people and I interviewed 100%. Overall just off the top of my head I would say less than 10% of the people that applied were any kind of minority to include women.

    Let me add, that I was also the one who approved our search ads. I was always of a strong belief that the ad is the first screening, so our ads were well written, specific in what we were looking for in the way of experience and knowledge. NOTE I put MORE emphasis on experience than knowledge, degrees etc.

    Our ads placed in the Metro DC and greater Norfolk area of Va often would not get more than 5 responses in a month with a 4x4 ad!

    Interesting facts: Those that responded came in 2 flavors: Having the knowledge, experience and background to do the job and those who pegged near zero on anything????? In fact some of those folks literally had not idea. I think it was just folks that answered ads based upon compensation. Most of my folks were making low 6 figures and this was in the late 80's and early 90's. Today, those same people would be lucky to make in the high 5 figures. I learned to NOT hire anyone with a Major in Computer Science, minor only, and my preferred choice was a BBA in Business with a minor in Computer science or other engineering or Music minor.

    My guidance to all was that we gave any and every minority better than a fair shake with the KEY factor being was could they come in and work on our team, we would send them to school to learn what we did, which was some very advanced for the times software and database design and development.
    Interesting that you include music as a minor in your list. Why is that?

    And why was computer science a bad major?

    I am not surprised that, in the 80s, few women or minorities would be at the level of experience that you would want. Few women, for example, were working outside the home regularly in the 60s and 70s in engineering firms, other than secretarial positions. However, even now, women in the hard sciences or engineering are a small group. The ones that are there fight like hell to compete in school: and it's not the white men they are competing against, it is the Asians.

    I knew one young woman who was a stellar math student. She got into UCSD, a major science/tech university on scholarship. After the first year, she changed her major to English (which I thought was an utter waste of time.) When asked why, she said she couldn't compete with the Asian students (UCSD is 50% Asian). They were constantly studying and she wanted to have some fun in college. Also, many math and science courses at UCSD have a downward curve: if too many students get A's or B's, the professor will curve down so that the A's become B's (and C's), the B's become C's (and D's) etc. This often affects kids on scholarship because they can't keep the high GPA.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7  
    Ancient Fire Breather Retread's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    I came to Texas as soon as I could
    Posts
    15,953
    If you are curving down one of two circumstances are usually the cause:
    either the course work is too easy or
    Your test are.
    It's not how old you are, it's how you got here.
    It's been a long road and not all of it was paved.
    . If you ain't havin' fun, it's your own damn fault
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    724
    Quote Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
    Interesting that you include music as a minor in your list. Why is that?

    And why was computer science a bad major?

    I am not surprised that, in the 80s, few women or minorities would be at the level of experience that you would want. Few women, for example, were working outside the home regularly in the 60s and 70s in engineering firms, other than secretarial positions. However, even now, women in the hard sciences or engineering are a small group. The ones that are there fight like hell to compete in school: and it's not the white men they are competing against, it is the Asians.

    I knew one young woman who was a stellar math student. She got into UCSD, a major science/tech university on scholarship. After the first year, she changed her major to English (which I thought was an utter waste of time.) When asked why, she said she couldn't compete with the Asian students (UCSD is 50% Asian). They were constantly studying and she wanted to have some fun in college. Also, many math and science courses at UCSD have a downward curve: if too many students get A's or B's, the professor will curve down so that the A's become B's (and C's), the B's become C's (and D's) etc. This often affects kids on scholarship because they can't keep the high GPA.
    Music is just another language and if you are a Music person then you can pickup coding quite quickly. In fact if you were a Music major I grab you up in a heartbeat.

    When you walked in my door, at that point in time you're learning was 4 years out of date. Few (if any) colleges teach good CS, why, because they focus on the coding and technical side. That more comes from experience than anything else. Its AFTER you get the experience you took one of my courses. In fact I listed the requirements to take my course as Post Grad degree and 5-8 years experience in hands on Software Engineering.

    In the days that I was in IT it was a fast moving train and I would meet the candidate to go to work and my number on concerned was his or her ability to forget what they knew and pickup what we did.

    On occasion after I told the young man or woman that it would be 6 mo min before they had a grip on what we did and how we did it. Some would laugh and tell me that they will have it in less than 30 days.

    At that point in time I said, 6 mo from today is Wed the 18th and I am writing your down for 1 pm. At that time you will come to my office and brief me on this program and if you have it nailed then I give your and your wife or girlfriend a dinner at any place in town, I pick up the tab. You will brief for 1 hour with slides. NO ONE ever briefed. One of 2 things happened: 1) they came to me at the time and with hat in hand said I was right or 2) they quit the Friday before. Most quit and their bosses told me they saw it coming, they just never grasped it.

    Our approach was different than anything taught in college, I saw IT as a bottom up, rather than the conventional top down development. Even today that is most often the approach and it leads to failure, cost overruns and worse, poor results. I believe you start at the bottom, which is the end user, and that is where the problem is you are trying to solve.

    I had more business analysts working for me than coders, this is the complete opposite of how most IT companies operate.
    Don
    Major US Army Infantry (RET)
    Hill Country of Texas

    Conservative, Constitutionalist, Capitalist, Christian. I speak: John Wayne, Johnny Cash and John Deere...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    724
    Quote Originally Posted by FlaGator View Post
    It's not about facts with liberals, it's about the narrative and the feelings that drive the narrative. The narrative is that everyone is equal when in fact people are not equal. Everyone has abilities but these abilities differ with each person. Freedom to use one's special skills should be the goal not the attempt to insure that everyone abilities are the same. A quote for Jordan Peterson, "If we are free we can't be equal and if we are all equal then we can't be free."
    Correct.

    Our equality comes from our Inequality and because of that the sum is far greater than the sum of its parts...a concept the liberals will never understand and worse, this is what they have taught all their followers.
    Don
    Major US Army Infantry (RET)
    Hill Country of Texas

    Conservative, Constitutionalist, Capitalist, Christian. I speak: John Wayne, Johnny Cash and John Deere...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Power CUer
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    22,615
    Quote Originally Posted by Retread View Post
    If you are curving down one of two circumstances are usually the cause:
    either the course work is too easy or
    Your test are.
    Actually there are other possibilities--and I speak from experience here.

    1. There is a large cheating ring, especially among students of certain backgrounds, ethnicities, or nationalities.

    This is very common. Students from certain backgrounds will help each other cheat. They often study together in groups and network with others in their communities. A large cheating ring occurs when you have a disproportionate number of students from one country in a class (or major) and they rely on countrymen who have already taken the class for copies of past tests or who have already taken the exam (in another section) for answers.

    Professors who have a habit of using the same tests year after year run this risk more than others. However, these students are resourceful and will find any way to cheat. This is why many professors give 2 different copies of the exam (or more) and why many give different tests to different sections of the same course: the 9:30 class will get Test A and the 11:30 class will get Test B. Even with all this prep, a good cheating ring can still do damage to the grade.

    Curving down is really not your solution here. It penalizes the students who are really trying and really earned their "C": these C students will now get F's because the professor is curving down. The cheating ring will still pass.


    2. You have an exceptional group of students

    This usually happens with small classes, not large sections. If you have a class of 10-15 students, you might just have an exceptional group that outperforms the average class. In this case, it is not fair to penalize these students for being really good by curving down.


    3. There is a readiness gap between two halves of the class and the professor is teaching "to the middle"

    Sometimes, students may be ready "on paper" for the course, but the classes they took to get to your course may be vastly different. Let's say you teach Math 102 and the prerequisite for your course is Math 101. Well, there may be different sections of Math 101 with different professors. Maybe Professor A was very thorough with high standards and Professor B was much more forgiving with grades and a little scattered in presentations. Your Math 102 class then will have two distinct groups of students, Group A (who is really ready for the course) and Group B (who are not really ready overall). You tend to find this out when you give a diagnostic exam on Day 1.

    Most teachers and college instructors tend to teach "toward the middle". This is often not a conscious thing, but it's a natural response and it comes from the assumption that most of your students are in the middle of the normal curve. However, when you "teach to the middle" in a class with a gap, you end up being too easy for the Group A students and too hard for the Group B students. Instead of getting a bell curve, you get a "V" curve, with about half your students getting A's and B's, the other half getting D's and F's and nobody in the middle.

    Curving down to reduce the number of A's will not help the situation. All of Group B will fail. The only cure for this situation, is to gradually begin teaching at level (so the Group A students get challenged) while requiring massive tutoring for the Group B students.


    There are probably others, but these are the three that I can think of off the top of my head.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •