View Poll Results: Did you vote for evil oil or protecting the caribou?

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  • I want to drill now and cut dependence on foreign oil.

    154 95.06%
  • Nooo, never, they might destroy the environment.

    8 4.94%
  • Haven't decided yet.

    0 0%
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  1. #81  
    Senior Member Constitutionally Speaking's Avatar
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    Drilling now would put oil on the market in between 8 months and 8 years from now (depending on where you drill).

    The knowledge that a flood of oil is about to hit the market will drive the futures down for the time period that the oil is expected to hit the market.

    When enough oil hits the market to overcome the shortage in supply plus provide a cushion, prices will drop dramatically.

    That is simply a fact.
    Last edited by Constitutionally Speaking; 07-04-2008 at 07:43 AM.
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  2. #82  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    Drilling now would put oil on the market in between 8 months and 8 years from now (depending on where you drill).

    The knowledge that a flood of oil is about to hit the market will drive the futures down for the time period that the oil is expected to hit the market.

    When enough oil hits the market to overcome the shortage in supply plus provide a cushion, prices will drop dramatically.

    That is simply a fact.
    Also a simple fact is that if cheap oil hitís the market more expensive oil will be withdrawn thereby pushing prices back up. I would also like for you to explain why oil companies would spend billions to develop older fields then intentionally create a situation that will force them to shut them down. Your contention that it is the oil industries desire to bankrupt itself just so you can have cheap oil is ridiculous.

    You are also aware that what you are proposing is both short-term and short-sighted. You can accomplish more by simply driving 55 than what you are proposing.
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  3. #83  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterS View Post
    Also a simple fact is that if cheap oil hitís the market more expensive oil will be withdrawn thereby pushing prices back up.
    There is no such thing as "cheap oil" and "expensive oil" in the way you describe. There is a market price.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeterS View Post
    I would also like for you to explain why oil companies would spend billions to develop older fields then intentionally create a situation that will force them to shut them down. Your contention that it is the oil industries desire to bankrupt itself just so you can have cheap oil is ridiculous.

    Nothing is as ridiculous as your statements here.

    You are also aware that what you are proposing is both short-term and short-sighted. You can accomplish more by simply driving 55 than what you are proposing.
    I am not against conservation (although good luck with this one). But there is no need to keep the trillions of barrels of oil we have RIGHT HERE off the market either. NONE.
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  4. #84  
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    I can think of more specific reasons (which may have been mentioned somewhere in this thread already) for drilling on our own soil.
    If supply is cut off from the middle east (or from outside our shores) we can divert oil exclusively to ourselves.

    If the middle east were to explode in all-out war, we would still have resources available.

    Another reason is that American companies would profit rather than our enemies.

    "Energy independence" means we find ways of producing our own energy, and that includes finding our own oil.
    I am not a "green," but I love the idea of a multi-faceted market-based solution to our issues. Drill for our own oil, nuclear power, solar, wind, biofuels (done reasonably, of course), electric cars (I would love to have one for getting around town), geothermal, coal, natural gas, "depolymerization" technology, fuel cells, etc.
    I look around my neighborhood and wonder how much less energy we would use if every home had a small 10'x10' solar panel on the roof...and a small windmill? And really good insulation?

    One piece of the puzzle isn't enough, but add them all up and we could make a pretty big dent in the issue.
    I don't mind if the government helps the issue along by inspiring market competition via awarding contracts to the most innovative, realistic and affordable products/solutions. How about a 10-year plan? I am not encouraging the government to mandate things, but having our tax dollars provide a stick and a big juicy carrot--it would be an optional pursuit for a company, not mandatory.
    I am not talking about dumb legislation such as barely-attainable CAFE or pollution standards, but truly attainable goals.

    What pisses me off is that liberals whine about the issue, and when solutions are offered they whine "NO!"
    Drill for oil? NO! Nuclear? NO! Coal? NO! Solar? NO! Windmills? "NO! It spoils my view of the harbor..."

    Liberal: I have an idea! Lets stifle our businesses by mandating unreachable goals and demonizing the "evil corporation", and the penalize them for not reaching the goals...and re-distribute that money to the poor! And lets demonize them more when they move their operations out of America!

    America has always been amazing innovators. We have been to the moon!
    We should unleash the beast, and fix this problem.
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  5. #85  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterS View Post
    Also a simple fact is that if cheap oil hitís the market more expensive oil will be withdrawn thereby pushing prices back up. I would also like for you to explain why oil companies would spend billions to develop older fields then intentionally create a situation that will force them to shut them down. Your contention that it is the oil industries desire to bankrupt itself just so you can have cheap oil is ridiculous.

    You are also aware that what you are proposing is both short-term and short-sighted. You can accomplish more by simply driving 55 than what you are proposing.
    There is so such thing as cheap oil; 4 oil companies will start the process of drilling 75 to 125 miles off FL coast in the Gulf of Mexico. The oil companies will spend millions before one drop of oil or natural gas comes to market. Total expenditures for these projects total in the billions. They would not invest in this expensive project if they thought oil and gas would dramatically decrease in price.

    The cost of drilling has increased and demand has increased; consequently, the price of oil will remain high. You can accomplish much more than driving 55 to lower the price of gasoline in the short and long term by exploring all forms of developing current and new energy sources plus conservation. Alternative energy is only a band aid to the problem in the short term. So why bother investing in alternative energy if we are to follow your logic on drilling. Ethanol is a good example of an idea gone bad. Nuke plants is a good idea along with new refineries but no one wants them in their back yard plus you have these Env. nuts that are against everything except using a food source (corn) to make Ethanol which in the manufacturing process is a heavy polluter. The EPA raised air pollution standard for the first time in history for this one manufacturer.
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  6. #86  
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    You are also aware that what you are proposing is both short-term and short-sighted. You can accomplish more by simply driving 55 than what you are proposing.
    Would you care to provide some supporting facts to this statement?
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  7. #87  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howie66 View Post
    Would you care to provide some supporting facts to this statement?
    Easy peasy...

    One energy analyst, John Dowd of Sanford C. Bernstein & Co, told a Senate panel this month that "if, as a country, we were to obey speed limits for the next two months, we would probably conserve more fuel than will be lost by the refinery outages [after Katrina]. Reducing speeds from 70 m.p.h. to 60 m.p.h., for example, improves fuel efficiency by 15 percent. If Americans want to know what they can do to limit gasoline price inflation, the answer is simple: slow down."
    Christian Science Monitor, 23 September 2005
    Test #2 Lower Speeds Saves Gas

    Remember a thing called the speed limit? On most highways it is either 65 or 70 mph. How fast are the cars and trucks around you going? From 75 mph to 90 mph. These people are wasting a lot of gas for the chance to get there a little earlier. Factor in safety concerns and a speeding ticket once or twice a year and going fast is a costly proposition.

    Method: This test was simple. For 50 miles we drove with the cruise control set at 65 mph. Then, for another 50-mile stretch we drove with cruise set at 75 mph. We repeated this test going in the opposite direction. It is amazing how obvious the difference in gas mileage was. Just think what would have happened if we had slowed down to 60 mph. The only problem is with impatient drivers behind you. One driver became so irate that he tried to run our editor off the road. Still, if you are pinched by gas prices. Leave a little early and drive the speed limit (in the slow lane).
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  8. #88  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacarnut View Post
    There is so such thing as cheap oil
    If there is no such thing as cheap oil then why did Texas oil fields shut down during the 80ís and there is a rush to pump now? It is one thing to spend millions to get millions and another to spend millions in the hope of getting hundreds of thousands. Yes, there is such a thing as cheap and expensive oil. We have only extracted 20% of our oil and to get the bulk of the rest oil is going to have to remain very, very expensive.

    They would not invest in this expensive project if they thought oil and gas would dramatically decrease in price.
    And that has been my point all along. Anyone who thinks that oil companies are going to invest billions in order to drive down the price of oil is a complete fool. They arenít going to do it which is why you will never see a flood of oil hit the market. This of course begs the question of just why we are salivating to drill in these areas when it will not have a positive impact on our wallets. If there is nothing in it for us what's the point?

    The cost of drilling has increased and demand has increased; consequently, the price of oil will remain high. You can accomplish much more than driving 55 to lower the price of gasoline in the short and long term by exploring all forms of developing current and new energy sources plus conservation.
    Are you talking to me?

    Alternative energy is only a band aid to the problem in the short term.
    Alternative energy is a long-term approach. How can this be a short-term solution?

    So why bother investing in alternative energy if we are to follow your logic on drilling.
    What is my logic on drilling?

    Ethanol is a good example of an idea gone bad.
    Ethanol form corn never made sense. Brazil has much better approach using sugarcane.

    Nuke plants is a good idea along with new refineries but no one wants them in their back yard
    Thatís exactly right. Everyone wants the energy from them but no one wants them in their back yards. So do we invoke eminent domain and seize property for the greater good?
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  9. #89  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loogie View Post

    Liberal: I have an idea! Lets stifle our businesses by mandating unreachable goals and demonizing the "evil corporation", and the penalize them for not reaching the goals...and re-distribute that money to the poor! And lets demonize them more when they move their operations out of America!
    So liberals are keeping you from putting up solar panels. None stopped me nor did they prevent me from adding insulation to my house, nor a radiant barrier, nor triple pane windows, nor buying a hybrid for both my daughter and wife. And since all of this came from evil corporations just how have I demonized them?

    I do love the way you made it seem you cons are behind the push for alternative energy. I got a good laugh from that one!
    Last edited by PeterS; 07-06-2008 at 11:45 AM.
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  10. #90  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constitutionally Speaking View Post
    Which will determine whether a well pumps or not. The more you drive down price the fewer wells will pump oil.
    Which will determine whether a well pumps or not. The more you drive down price the fewer wells will pump oil.

    Nothing is as ridiculous as your statements here.
    Try reading anything you write...

    I am not against conservation (although good luck with this one).
    We have already cut our yearly miles driven by 16 billion. That's conservation. How did I need any luck? Conservation is going to happen whether you like it or not. The only question begged is why you are so resistant to it?

    But there is no need to keep the trillions of barrels of oil we have RIGHT HERE off the market either. NONE.
    Nor have you presented a reason to put them on the market...other than not having them on the market will force you to conserve. Frankly I think you just made the case for not drilling!
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