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  1. #21  
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    Wilbur, your example of the "right to refuse" on religious grounds fails, because pharmacists who refuse to serve abortion drugs are not refusing service to individuals. They're refusing to provide a certain item at their store. An appropriate analogy to the abortion drug issue would be the same Muslim establishment refusing to serve bacon.

    Instead, this would be akin to a restaurant refusing, for religious reasons, to serve a black person. This isn't a refusal to serve products, it is a refusal to serve a class of people.

    The anti-discrimination PC types should be all over this.
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  2. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwater View Post
    OMG they're taking over in small obscure news stories! :D

    If the owner of the restaurant doesn't want dogs on his property, then tough - welcome to freedom.
    It's not a dog. It's a guide animal.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  3. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    What about rights of refusal here? Now suddenly people here are against this policy when Muslims are involved?
    Big difference between the right to refuse to participate in murder and the right to refuse the disabled.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
    If it is their religion that offends me at my place, I should have the right to refuse them service for that reason.
    If this were allowed - I'd have no issues what ever.
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  5. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by biccat View Post
    Wilbur, your example of the "right to refuse" on religious grounds fails, because pharmacists who refuse to serve abortion drugs are not refusing service to individuals. They're refusing to provide a certain item at their store. An appropriate analogy to the abortion drug issue would be the same Muslim establishment refusing to serve bacon.

    Instead, this would be akin to a restaurant refusing, for religious reasons, to serve a black person. This isn't a refusal to serve products, it is a refusal to serve a class of people.

    The anti-discrimination PC types should be all over this.
    well said. :)
    Stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand alone.
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  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by biccat View Post
    Wilbur, your example of the "right to refuse" on religious grounds fails, because pharmacists who refuse to serve abortion drugs are not refusing service to individuals. They're refusing to provide a certain item at their store. An appropriate analogy to the abortion drug issue would be the same Muslim establishment refusing to serve bacon.

    Instead, this would be akin to a restaurant refusing, for religious reasons, to serve a black person. This isn't a refusal to serve products, it is a refusal to serve a class of people.

    The anti-discrimination PC types should be all over this.
    I didn't really try to equivocate the two situations... access to medication is an essential service.

    At any rate, the pharmacist situation is different simply because the consequences are much more severe, and limited by time. I the vast majority of cases it is inconsequential because a pharmacist or two refusing to sell wouldn't be enough to prevent someone from getting the medication they need, when they need it. I think it should be left up to the employer... I'm not for making any special laws that exempt pharmacists from dispensing medication or refusing to dispense medication against their employers wishes. The only thing I would worry about are fringe cases... small towns perhaps where there are no other options.. and transportation to another might be difficult. In such cases, I have no problem with forcing the pharmacist to assist in filling the prescription.

    In most places, I think we are far enough along that problems like these take care of themselves if someone makes enough noise about it.

    But all these Islamic cases are pretty interesting... we've carved all kinds of exceptions out for religious practice in this country. I mean here we have a religious belief vs disability? Which supersedes the other?

    Now I wonder what would happen if there were a Muslim hospital and a blind man with a guide dog needed help? And damn... it must suck to be blind... but imagine being blind in an Islamic country. :P
    Last edited by wilbur; 12-16-2008 at 12:10 AM.
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  7. #27  
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    Maybe the dog was gay?
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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilbur View Post
    Calling a newly conceived egg a human life with rights is a very debatable point my friend... one I'm afraid has some very good arguments against (in my mind, the superior arguments).. Its very dishonest to simply refer to it unequivocally as a human being with rights.

    Try and bludgeon people to death with shock and awe all you like... using terms like 'murder', 'killing' etc etc... but it doesn't help your case.
    Listen up and learn: It is a HUMAN life wither you believe it is or not.. its not open for debate.

    Of course you feel they are superior because you yourself believe in them. I am not here to convince you one way or another. I am just letting you know what the truth is. I am just pointing out your monumental idiocy in equating a human life to a blind person refused service due to his seeing eye dog. BTW: i am against anyone refusing the blind service due to there dog.
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  9. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lars1701a View Post
    Listen up and learn: It is a HUMAN life wither you believe it is or not.. its not open for debate.

    Of course you feel they are superior because you yourself believe in them.
    I don't think they are superior because I believe them, I believe them because they ARE superior.

    I am not here to convince you one way or another. I am just letting you know what the truth is. I am just pointing out your monumental idiocy in equating a human life to a blind person refused service due to his seeing eye dog. BTW: i am against anyone refusing the blind service due to there dog.
    I did not equate refusal of service for the morning after pill with the blind man at a restaurant. I criticized your equivocation of morning after pills with murder.
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  10. #30  
    Back on point here: I don't know how it works in the U.K. but in the USA, service animals are allowed in any venue their owners enter. That's a part of the ADA and there is no exemption on any grounds if a business is open to the general public. Even employers had better have some very solid reasons for not employing someone who depends on a service animal. "Animal looks scary/smells funny" is not a valid reason to refuse service or deny employment under the ADA.
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