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  1. #1 Senators announce bill to stop Trump tariffs 
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    Sundance at the Treehouse thought that this was why Turtle Boy canceled the Senate recess.

    Senators announce bill to stop Trump tariffs
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...trump-tariffs/

    A bipartisan group of senators struck back against President Trump’s new tariffs on U.S. allies, announcing legislation Wednesday that would give Congress a chance to review any new duties before they take effect.

    The bill would also apply retroactively to any decisions made over the last two years, meaning Mr. Trump’s decision to impose a 25 percent duty in steel imports and a 10 percent duty on aluminum could be subject to congressional approval.

    Mr. Trump last week announced he wouldn’t carve out exceptions to the tariffs for Canada, Mexico and the European Union, and those governments announced retaliatory duties, sparking fears of a global trade war.

    The president justified the tariffs by citing national security, saying the country needed a predictable supply of those metals, though he also said he was bothered by what he perceived as unfair competition.

    Those claims didn’t sit well with senators who said the president was gaming the system....
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  2. #2  
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    If it makes it to Trump he will simply veto it.
    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
    Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;
    Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
    21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
    And clever in their own sight! Isaiah 5:20-21 NASB

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  3. #3  
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    Well, a senior delegation of Chinese trade officials is making their way to seek an audience with the President and sue for peace in the trade war. We should know in the near future which, if any, tariffs are going to be for real and which were just political poker chips. Hint: DJT will be raking in the pot on this hand. Our economy is genuine and roaring. Their's is fake and holding on by a thread. Concessions may be in the area of trade, intellectual property rights, currency manipulation, South China Sea militarization, North Korean co-operation. Too early to tell but the MAGA agenda will be advanced and the hair-on-fire, end-of-the world free traders will be scrambling for some new spin.

    These simple facts point to the dire position of the Chinese:

    1. Direct foreign investment by Chinese businesses and individuals in the United States in 2016 is THREE TIMES what it was in 2015. This is not a plot to "buy " our country and make us serfs. They are getting their money the hell out while they still can.

    2. The Chinese government is funding an equivalent of the old Obama Stimulus Package every SEVENTEEN DAYS and have been doing so for quite a while. Where did you think the investment in all of those huge, totally empty cities was coming from?

    3. Televised public executions of hundreds of "corrupt" officials preparing politically and psychologically for iron rule in the upcoming chaos.

    4. Despite having billions of people, they are running out of 25 year old workers (skilled or not). A direct result of their "one child" policy.

    The $#!+ is going to hit the fan sooner or later (but not that much later). Xi would prefer later. Back to the poker table with Xi and Donald. Xi knows that Donald could kick the table over at any time and he is terrified. WE WIN.

    Anyone tired of winning yet?
    Last edited by old dog; 08-20-2018 at 12:44 AM.
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  4. #4  
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    With the exception of tariffs against China (actual National Security implications there) I have no problem with them doing this.

    The tariffs are a direct tax on American consumers at a time they don't need yet another tax heaped upon them.
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    This sort of legislation would hamstring the Presidents bargaining position worldwide. The fear of trade war(s) is totally unfounded. The simple fact is that the United States is the LEAST involved country in the developed world in trade as a percent of GDP. Any trade war will impact the other guys more than it will impact us, and they know it. Unlike previous presidents, Trump is exploiting this fact to eliminate unfair practices of foreign governments. Notice how many of the counter-tariffs are targeted at areas of the country with majority of Trump voters; Kentucky bourbon whiskey for example (there are many others). This is an attempt to ratchet up domestic political pressure while negotiations are going on. Very few (maybe none) of these announced tariffs and counter-tariffs are actually being collected TODAY. Negotiations are privately going on every day. We will win.

    Don't worry, be happy!

    PS People in Europe or China who can afford to drink imported Kentucky bourbon and appreciate it are not going switch to local rotgut over an additional 10% in price.
    Last edited by old dog; 08-20-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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  6. #6  
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    No not really. Any trade way will impact the consumer...not the producers...because like in this country...other countries will move to protect and financially prop up if need be the industries affected.

    Smoot-Hawley anyone? Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it and a tariff war will provide no winners and only losers...that being the consumers and more importantly Americans just beginning to get their finances back in order after 8 years of Obama.


    Not to mention the fact that the industries that are being protected in this tariff war are increasing the prices on their domestically made products to just within 1-2% of what the new tariff rate is. So either way...it gets more expensive all up and down the line for goods and services in this country which affects the buying power of you and me.

    And quite frankly...if we want to hurt China...we need to repeal most favored nation trading status with the ChiComs. That's what allows them to dump cheap goods into our country as fast as they can make them.


    Nothing good comes from a tariff war and anyone that thinks so needs to go back and study HS history and probably Econ 101 t00.
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    Regarding Smoot-Hawley, it was a Congressional pork-barrel with everyone adding an amendment for his constituents. I'm not going to defend it but it is just a "talking point" and not a universal immutable principle. Modern economics is an attempt to cast a dynamic geopolitical world into a static framework. Economists are able to pick and choose historical events and fit them into their pet theory. The free traders seldom mention that the majority of Federal income prior to the income tax was from tariffs. They never mention that American steel tariffs in the later half of the 19th century built the American steel industry and destroyed the British steel industry. Ronald Reagan, a free trader, used the threat of tariffs to get "voluntary" restraints on Japanese autos and imported steel. The hair-on-fire free traders are deliberately obfuscating the "threat of tariffs" with the "final imposition of tariffs". One is a negotiating tool the other is a tax. The President wants to rectify unfair trade practices and is using tariffs as a negotiating tool for the good of the country.. The Congressional Weasel Caucus wants to take that away from him for partisan ends.

    The geopolitics of the world changed dramatically after WWII when the Americans guaranteed the safety of free trade in exchange for Cold War solidarity and national security. American trade deficits were built in to allow our devastated allies a market for their goods. The situation changed again when we won the Cold War. The Soviets were no longer a threat but we continued to be the guardians of the open sea........and got little in return. Our Navy continued to be a stabilizing force in the oil rich middle east which we and our allies depended on...........but TODAY, we no longer need the oil, Europe and the Far East still do. I still think that the United States should maintain the status as Mistress of the Seas, Europe and Asia have to step up to the plate since they have much more to lose. There is very little advantage to treating free trade as a sacred cow. Trump is for dropping all tariffs and non-tariff restrictions with the EU. Do you see any of the supposed free traders applauding that?

    America remains the most prosperous, self sufficient and secure country on the planet. We are the least engaged in trade as pointed out in a previous post.
    The worst case of a real trade war will cause some domestic discomfort while it devastates the other guy. They're not stupid. We win. There will be no trade war.
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  8. #8  
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    America remains the most prosperous, self sufficient and secure country on the planet. We are the least engaged in trade as pointed out in a previous post.
    We trade with countries all around the world. Can't see how anyone logically believes we're the lease engaged in the world when it comes to trade.


    If what you say was true we wouldn't have the GDP that we do.

    The worst case of a real trade war will cause some domestic discomfort while it devastates the other guy. They're not stupid. We win. There will be no trade war.
    Umm someone didn't give dear leader the message:

    Trump doubles down: 'Trade wars are good, and easy to win'
    Trump seems to believe were in one.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/trum...sy-to-win.html


    The President wants to rectify unfair trade practices and is using tariffs as a negotiating tool for the good of the country.. The Congressional Weasel Caucus wants to take that away from him for partisan ends.
    No the Congress wants to regain some of it's power. It has the power over tariffs and taxes. Not the Executive.

    There is no "national security" issues in the trade and importation of timber with Canada.


    Oh and incase you missed it...Trump hasn't been threatening tariffs...he's been imposing them. And that is a direct tax on the consumer. He's engaging in crony capitalism not free trade. He can talk all day about dropping all tariffs...but he can't do that unilaterally. That has to come...again...from Congress. And last time I check he has yet to go to Congress to ask them to drop any tariffs on a country in a good faith gesture so they would do the same for us.


    BTW..."fair" trade isn't free trade. There is nothing wrong with the U.S. having a trade surplus with one country while having a trade deficit with another.

    That is part of a true free market economy. Not imposing tariffs and protecting certain industries with what amounts to corporate welfare.

    Why is it good when a Republican does it but bad when a Dem does it?


    In the words of the great Libertarian economist Milton Friedman:

    I urge on those people who think there's some sense to the steel industry argument to consider it in a more absurd setting. You very often bring out the logic of an argument by carrying it to an extreme. You know, you can have a great employment in the city of Logan, Utah, of people growing bananas in hothouses. If we had a high enough tariff on the import of bananas, it could become profitable to build hothouses and grow bananas and those hothouses. That would give employment. Would that be a sensible thing to do? If that isn't sensible, neither is it sensible to artificially restrict the import of steel.

    When government - in pursuit of good intentions - tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost come in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.
    Last edited by TRG; 08-20-2018 at 06:10 PM.
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRG View Post
    We trade with countries all around the world. Can't see how anyone logically believes we're the lease engaged in the world when it comes to trade. If what you say was true we wouldn't have the GDP that we do.
    On this page you will find a list of 164 countries in order of their exports as a % of GDP. USA ranks at 155th at 11.89%. Only Kiribati, Egypt, Sudan, Nepal, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Afghanistan, Burundi and Yemen rank lower.

    https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/Exports/

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    On this page you will find a list of 164 countries in order of their imports as a % of GDP. USA ranks at 161st at 14.69% Only Argentina, Sudan and Brazil rank lower.

    https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/Imports/

    ************************************************** ************************************************** **********

    Original source data is from the World Bank for 2016, the most recent year for which data is available.

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    THE UNITED STATES IS THE LEAST INVOLVED IN TRADE OF ALL DEVELOPED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD PERIOD

    ************************************************** ************************************************** **********

    I may (and have) occasionally made factual errors but I try to check facts and sources before I use them. We are blessed to live in the greatest piece of real estate on the planet with the most powerful military in the world the best government which respects property and the rule of law. Yeah, sometimes it sucks but everyone else's sucks worse.

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    I'll stand by my original statement:

    The worst case of a real trade war will cause some domestic discomfort while it devastates the other guy. They're not stupid. We win. There will be no trade war.
    The United States Navy, fighting Moslem barbarians since 1801.
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    I've always thought America was Great. Wouldn't it just be Great if we made it America Again?
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