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  1. #1 Should we fight dirty to win? 
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    MrScorpio (70,322 posts)

    Should we fight dirty to win?

    Why this political scientist thinks the Democrats have to fight dirty
    “The Republicans are behaving like a party that believes it will never be held accountable.”
    By Sean Illing@seanillingsean.illing@vox.com Updated Oct 7, 2018, 9:37am EDT

    In September 2016, an anonymous conservative writer published an essay called “The Flight 93 Election.”

    The title was a reference to the one hijacked flight on 9/11 that didn’t reach its destination because passengers overwhelmed the hijackers and brought the plane down.

    The logic of the essay was simple enough: The prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency was so positively ruinous that conservatives had no choice but to support Donald Trump — no matter how awful or incompetent he appeared to be. The stakes were simply too high.

    Until now, there was no left-wing equivalent to the “Flight 93” essay, no rallying cry that urged Democrats and liberals to do whatever is necessary to win. But David Faris’s new book, It’s Time to Fight Dirty, is the closest anyone has come so far.

    Faris, a political scientist at Roosevelt University, argues that the Democratic Party must recognize that Republicans aren’t engaged in a policy fight; instead, they’re waging a “procedural war.”

    What he means is that Republicans have spent the past two decades exploiting the vagueness of the Constitution to create structural advantages for their side — passing discriminatory voter ID laws, using the census to gerrymander districts, blocking Democratic Supreme Court nominees, and so on.

    Faris writes Democrats have to recognize this reality and act accordingly, especially now that the Republicans are poised to conquer the Supreme Court for a generation. I reached out to him to find out what, exactly, he has in mind.

    A lightly edited transcript of our conversation follows.

    Sean Illing
    Your book feels like the left-wing equivalent of the “Flight 93” essay — an urgent Democratic call to arms. Is that how you see it?

    David Faris
    Yeah, I think so. We’re at a very dangerous moment in American history. There’s been a massive erosion of trust in public institutions and in the broader electoral process. The Trump administration has been disastrously disruptive to the norms of our political culture.

    We’re also in a very dangerous moment for the planet, and I worry that we’re sleepwalking into a series of crises that we’ll have to deal with for a very long time, that our kids will have to deal with for a very long time. So yes, I am sort of sounding the alarm, and I think Democrats have to recognize the urgency of the moment and act accordingly.

    Am I in “charge the cockpit or die” mode? I don’t know, but I do think our predicament justifies some serious procedural hardball from the Democrats.

    Sean Illing
    Well, let’s talk about the Democrats. There are roughly three competing visions within the party about how to move forward: 1) Go the way of Bernie Sanders and appeal to working-class voters with progressive policy ideas; 2) go the centrist route in a bid to grab moderate, suburban independents and Republicans who might have voted for Trump but can be persuaded to jump ship; or 3) double down on the 2008 and 2012 strategies and hope to recreate the Obama coalition of women, minorities, and young people.

    You say all these are nonstarters — why?

    David Faris
    I think Democrats should have this debate, but my point is that no policy platform is going to win three or four consecutive national elections for Democrats because we know policy isn’t what decides elections; that’s not how most voters make decisions.


    https://www.vox.com/2018/5/1/1725886...trump-election
    We should fight dirty 24 (92%)

    We should not fight dirty 1 (4%)

    Other 1 (4%)

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    randr (9,178 posts)

    5. When you are in the trenches you gotta expect to get dirty

    For instance:
    Maxine Walters response to Trump whining about "mobs" was just too polite
    Correct response:
    We will pit our mobs against your mobs any day you fucking weenie!
    Mobs, you want mobs?, you ain't seen nothing yet.
    Minority losers are afraid of American protestors, boo fuckin hoo.
    Rizen (62 posts)

    6. Stupid People

    The US is full of them. They don't understand facts or anything not presented like a Pro Wrestling soap opera. We need to fight dirty to reach them. Republicans can make up stupid scandals that end in no convictions but still hurt Democrats, why can't we? I'm not saying do anything illegal but call them out for their "war on women" and being traitors. We need strong talking points the average garden vegetable (prospective voter) can rally behind.

    Last edited by Carol; 10-10-2018 at 05:55 PM.
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  2. #2  
    We need to fight dirty to reach them. Republicans can make up stupid scandals that end in no convictions but still hurt Democrats, why can't we?
    You mean like accusing someone of:

    1. sexual assult
    2. attempted rape
    3. spiking the punch with drugs
    4. gang rapes
    5. rapes on a boat
    6. excessive drinking
    7. more rapes
    8. threw ice

    when there is no evidence whatsoever?
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Dlr Pyro's Avatar
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    Why? Can't win playing honestly?

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    "People who think they know it all, are annoying to those of us who really do".... Pyro Bob

    "Even if Trump didn't pay Russian hookers to pee on one another to defile a bed the Obamas once slept on it sounds like something he would do and that's all that matters." DemocratSinceBirth, Wed Jan 11, 2017, 09:32 AM

    "Enemy. The word you are looking for is enemy. When the ideals of someone are antithetical to yours, you can say the word "enemy". DUmmy ret5hd Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:10 PM
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member SVPete's Avatar
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    MrScorpio (70,322 posts)

    Should we fight dirty to win?
    Just tell us when you think you're "fighting dirty", because no one will be able to tell the difference.
    Facts don't matter to DUpipo.

    BIG CHEETO Is Watching You!

    Note to "Warpy" and "shockey80": I voted for Donald Trump! I would do so again!
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  5. #5  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    You fought dirty and lost. Perhaps you want to try something different this time.
    Liberals! The real fascists.
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  6. #6  
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    DUmmies think just because we haven’t fought back yet that they can keep poking the bear. Just understand, DUmmies, when you eventually push too far we will not let up until you are ALL whiped out from politics. We will beat your party until it becomes an afterthought.
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  7. #7  
    Drive-by Poster ABC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVPete View Post
    Just tell us when you think you're "fighting dirty", because no one will be able to tell the difference.
    Ha! Ha! Good one!

    "Should we fight dirty to win?" ...

    Didn't realize that they knew any *other* way!!!

    American By Choice ~ 1980
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  8. #8  
    eeeevil Sith Admin SarasotaRepub's Avatar
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    They thought they were fighting clean and fair???


    AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!


    May the FORCE be with you!
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Fun Ball View Post
    You mean like accusing someone of:

    1. sexual assult
    2. attempted rape
    3. spiking the punch with drugs
    4. gang rapes
    5. rapes on a boat
    6. excessive drinking
    7. more rapes
    8. threw ice

    when there is no evidence whatsoever?
    No evidence, you say?

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/1727030109...9229054&sr=1-5
    Last edited by lipid08; 10-11-2018 at 12:05 AM.
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  10. #10  
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    We should always remain respectful and simply beat them with facts and excellence.
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