Last edited by wilbur; 01-22-2009 at 11:51 PM.
To assume my worldview is based or stolen from Christianity is obtusely ignorant.... I can't say nothing has come from Christians... but so many things have cross pollinated and mingled throughout the ages, you can't say any of this comes from any single source. Philosophy of the enlightenment, and other ideas reaching as far back as ancient Greece and Rome... humanity doing things the wrong ways for centuries and centuries.... some things even from Christianity, and Judaism before that. To try and usurp credit for all the wonderful ideas in morality, government and human rights as purely or even mostly Christian ideals is typical revisionist history BS and not even remotely true. When you consider what a patchwork of other ancient philosophies and cultures that Christianity itself contains, it becomes all the more silly.
Last edited by wilbur; 01-23-2009 at 12:15 AM.
When, and if, you take any time to study Eastern Culture or the culture prevalent in India - especially before Western Civilization began to change those cultures - even you should be able to see that your foundational beliefs come straight from the Bible (if you can force yourself to be honest with yourself)...and that you've done nothing except warp them. You are right about one thing, it's pointless trying to discuss this issue with you until you actually take the time to figure out your own moral framework and find it's foundation. Otherwise, you'll just spend the next 20 pages endlessly quoting nonsense.
All this nonsense about my moral framework coming directly from the Bible really is neither here nor there. You obviously disagree with what I'm saying so it can't be all Biblical then can it?
Last edited by wilbur; 01-23-2009 at 05:04 PM.
Islam used to be the scientific hub of the world... they gave us algebra while Christians were groping around in the dark, trying to make their way through the dark ages that they partly caused. Islam, once the scientific light of the world, fell prey to fundamentalists and literalists... the MrsSmiths and the Policons of their day.... and made them regress to what they are today....decrepit, savage and primitive. That is the future MrsSmith, Policon and other fundamentalist literalists are working to carve out for us.We do not see that preservation among the Moslem or East Asian cultures, much less the free inquiry that followed their reintroduction to the modern world. East Asia sought to isolate itself from the west as much as possible, which led to their exploitation by the west until they chose to break that cycle, with the resulting economic and individual growth that only western ideas encourage. Islam continues to seek isolation, and only expands its influence through conquest or bribery, with the result that the Islamic world has produced no scientific or philosophical advances in centuries.
I have no problem with knowing and understanding that many great beliefs and philosophies have come from Christian sources... but Christians tend to overstate the importance of their own belief system.. and refuse credit to all those people, and events that led THEM to where they, and the west are today.Whether you like to admit it or not, you are a child of the west, and the west is what it is because of its canon of great thinkers whose works were preserved by the church that you disdain as backwards and reactionary.
Last edited by wilbur; 01-24-2009 at 12:14 AM.
Oh, and as a Jew, and a highly lapsed one, I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'd say that I'm fairly objective on the subject.
That makes no sense. Unless it doesn't die? So unless the fetus lives it is a person? What? I will assume you made a mistake and meant unless it dies. A fetus will always become a person unless it dies. It can be killed accidentally by the mother, which is not a good thing. It can also be killed by abortion. That is the whole point. A fetus will ALWAYS become a person, and no other thing on this world will ever become a person. You are ending the process of a developing person by aborting a fetus.Originally Posted by wilbur
I notice you say things are not relevant when you have no actual argument. A fetus has the capacity to become a person, and it WILL.[/quote]Originally Posted by wilbur
Potential can now be considered? For the last several pages of this debate you have denied the relevance of potential completely.Originally Posted by wilbur
|« Previous Thread | Next Thread »|