So? I can still defend other people too lolNo, I was responding to Milly actually with that whole little digression.. but I'm working on yours, be patient
Last edited by FlaGator; 12-23-2008 at 10:11 PM.
I am also a Christian, and I believe abortion is wrong because of what I am taught through my religion. But like FlaGator said, not everyone is the same religion. This is why I try not to use arguments like "God said so" or "the Bible says" because if one is an atheist they would give a damn what God or the Bible says.
... some parts snipped for brevity...
Ask yourself why most of us would feel absolutely no pangs of conscience or compassion for fruit flies when they are the subject of experiments... but we might feel something for a monkey, or a dolphin... what is it that makes the difference? Any of those are just as alive as the other... but why might one get more consideration? Is it the development of their bodies? They are all fully developed. Is it the presence of the DNA that makes the difference? They all have DNA in the amounts necessary for them to exist. Or is it something else... something to do with the mind.. the consciousness.. the capacity to suffer.. awareness? I think you will have no choice but to say that it is primarily, if not utterly, those latter considerations... and that's exactly what makes the difference in a fetus.
We can talk about 'potential this' and 'potential that' all day long... but as long as its simply potential.. you essentially want to convict someone of murder on a foundation of 'what-ifs' and 'it coulda been's...
Brain function does not start until 20-22 weeks... Until that time any brain tissue is simply scaffolding.. I should have clarified that earlier. Even then we aren't really sure what kind of function is present.. but that is the time where, for the first time, we cannot be sure that awareness has not developed. Prior to that, it is as certain as the fact that water is wet, that the fetus is an empty shell. Many of you may be compelled by maternal instincts and emotion to think of it as more than that.. especially while carrying.. and that is great, and good.. but you are thinking of what could be, not of what is... no being has materialized.So you have moved from brain to personality. Yes, a baby does have a will and a personality. Where does it develop the ability? As the fetus. The very beginings of human life are in the fetus. Even a baby does not have a fully developed personality. Human life is a never ending process of development and then deterioration as we age. A fetus is the very start of life, and slowly it develops into a newborn baby, which will then continue to grow over the years into an adult. I do not believe that a fetus has any less worth than a child or adult. Without the fetus there is no child.
Back to the brain. By seven to eight weeks into a pregnancy a brain begins to develop. 60% of abortions occur at 8 weeks or later. If the brain had began to develop at 7 weeks that would add 20% to that number. Only 20% of all abortions occur before 7 weeks. As I have said before the DNA is what makes the brain. But because a fetus does not have a fully developed brain, is it right to kill it? Teenagers do not even have fully developed brains. A fetus is different from a child. It is the very begining, a child cannot appear out of nothing. I cannot murder people that annoy me because they are people. They are living people who have life. A fetus is living. It has a life. What is your reasoning for not killing people? Is it that as long as a person has a brain that person should not be killed? If so then 80% of abortions are not justified.
I switch back and forth between brain/personality/cognition etc because the distinction really isnt so clear. All those are properties of an active brain, they cannot exist without one. The brain is the final brick put into place that solidifies person-hood, cognition. Without there is no suffering, no pain, no will, no mind... no person. Perhaps one day we could artificially build the most beautiful and magnificent human body... but it will not be a person until it has an active brain, and our ethics regarding it would be unrestricted unless it did. Personality and will are only present in a neurologically active brain.. not before, not after.
Then once you start to examine the consequences of the 'life at conception' ideology for the beings that would be restricted from exercising their will.. whether it be for economic reasons or otherwise.. you can see why it is immoral to restrict their right to act as they will towards a fetus. We havent even touched embryonic medical research in the areas of fertility, cloning, and stem cell treatments and the implications such research has for all of us... it is immoral and wrong not to allow embryonic research and experimentation (I mention this because it would also get swallowed up and halted by the 'life at conception' ideology).
Last edited by wilbur; 12-24-2008 at 02:39 AM.
Excellent article, thanks for posting it, Meg! It really does sum up the twisted times we live in.
"Not really, I am simply saying that the majority of environmentalists have nothing to do with pantheism and definitely not Baalism"
If you actually paid attention to the article, you would see it said "Radical environmentalism." That's NOT the conservatives who just want to preserve sections of nature and leave their children something in it to enjoy and camp and fish in. It is the radical leftists from groups like Earth First, the ELF, etc., who encourage bombing construction sites, torching SUVs (Which, incidentally, releases more harmful toxins into the air within a matter of minutes than the SUVs would have released over decades of normal usage), and advocating the extermination of the human race. It is the radical leftists in higher offices of government who want to keep us from becoming energy independent by squawking like angry parrots about "Global Warming."
Last edited by movie buff; 12-24-2008 at 07:18 AM.
That is a fetus at week 10. It doesn't look like an empty shell to me. I think I have found that your only point is that because a fetus has no brain or feelings, it is justified to kill it. I find that wrong, and I can never agree with you on that.
Last edited by Mythic; 12-24-2008 at 02:27 PM.
|« Previous Thread | Next Thread »|