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  1. #71  
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiegenlied View Post
    I will point out some facts below but I believe some seniors who experience both Reagan’s administration and Bush’ administration will know much better than me. Apparently, the policies toward the whaling moratorium are quite different under the President Reagan’s administration and under President Bush’ administration.

    First off, I do not understand why a stance in defending international whaling moratorium would classify one as ecoweenies, environuts, or tree huggers. Because, President Reagan initiated and supported an indefinite moratorium on commercial whaling. http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=44097.

    Japan is a member of IWC and therefore is adhered to any decisions made by the IWC. Back then in the 1980s, Japan was against the enactment of the moratorium As the United States imposed the Pelly Amendment to the Fishermen’s Protective Act of 1967 which “allowed the President to direct the Secretary of Treasury to prohibit the importation of any products from the offending countries which violate international fishery or threatened species programs,” and the Packwood Amendment to the Magnuson Fishery Conservation and Management Act which “demanded economic sanctions against any foreign countries that fishing in such a manner as to diminish the effectiveness of the decisions made by the International Whaling Commission.” Japan has chosen to withdrew its objection to the commercial whaling moratorium rather than facing trade sanctions and loss its fishing rights in the US waters. So since then, the moratorium on commercial whaling went into effect.

    Yet, nowadays Japan is trying to encircle something it has agreed to by disguising its operation under “scientific or research-based” whaling operations, and they are arguing that the meat from the whales will be sold commercially to support the research. In my opinion, the Japanese is wrong in this case because the moratorium is still in effect and has not been overturned. They haven’t won the majorities of votes yet. President Reagan understood well that the next war will be on trades. If now the Japanese win the votes and the moratorium is overturned, then it means that the United States loses the trade war.
    Does Japan perform scientific experimentation on the whales they harvest yes or no ?

    If the answer is yes, then what they are doing is legally recognized as "Scientific research" under the IWC agreements as they presently stand.

    Is it wrong to sell the meat remaining after the experiments are concluded or should it just go to waste ?

    Sea Shepherd maybe condemned under Japanese law or maritime law. Still, for me, the Japanese should stop first and begin to obey the moratorium which they themselves have agreed to in 1986.
    Japan has done nothing illegal here. Why should they be forced to cave into operations like the "sea shepherd" who are very much breaking the law ?

    Should we allow that precedent to be set ?
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  2. #72  
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    As for both of your arguments, I can understand: since this is a trade-war, it is improper to use violence to win it. There is a law and americans should not bend on integrities regardless what the opponents’ tactics are. (?).

    Then, the war must be won on the negotiation table.

    Some of the people here are probably the descendants of sailor warriors, same as those of the Sea Shepherd’s crews. I prefer not to touch this. Some disagreeing arguments are fine, but I can see that the descendants of sailor warriors aren’t DUmps.

    It might be a good idea to add a clause to the moratorium as to what to do if a nation is failed to carry an agreement and probably for the IWC to deploy its own vessels in the high seas to enforce peaceful conducts in such a case violating whaling ships are seen.

    ~
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  3. #73  
    Sonnabend
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    As an Australian I would expect that Sonnabend would be somewhat conscience of this. Wait until all the sharks haved been killed by finning them on the Great Barrier Reef.
    Hey.

    Stupid.

    There is no fishing of sharks off the Reef, there never has been, and the shark population in these waters is expanding, not shrinking.

    Again, idiot, what people do in the territorial waters of other nations is not our concern.

    Let me say this one more time, so that that thick skull of yours will finally get the message The areas in question are not Aust. territorial waters, as they are part of an agreement that Japan is not a signatory of.

    To stretch your corollary, M21, that would make you subject to the ICC despite the fact the US is not a signatory.

    Get it now?
    Last edited by Sonnabend; 01-01-2009 at 02:46 PM.
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  4. #74  
    Sonnabend
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    Well, well...

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html

    Activists 'disrupting' man overboard search

    AAP

    January 07, 2009 09:10am

    JAPANESE whalers have accused anti-whaling activists of trying to disrupt their search for a crew member missing and presumed dead after falling overboard in freezing Antarctic waters.

    The crew of the Sea Shepherd vessel Steve Irwin said on Saturday it was heading to port to refuel after chasing the Japanese whaling fleet for two weeks across the Southern Ocean.


    But the Dutch-flagged ship had instead remained in the Antarctic and had latched onto a distress signal issued by New Zealand maritime authorities to locate the whalers searching for 30-year-old sailor Hajime Shirasaki, a spokesman for Japan's Institute of Cetacean Research (ICR) said.
    So they think..."hey,. they're trying to save a man overboard, lets use their distress signal and go hassle them"..the fact they they will be sabotaging a RESCUE mission to save a human life isnt important.

    Kill a human for Mother Gaia.

    In a joint statement, the ICR and Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha, which owns the Japanese ships, said the Steve Irwin was photographed close to the fleet with its lights off last night.
    Another violation of the law.Why run with lights off. What were they going to do ..ram the ship whilst they tried to recover the crewman?

    "Despite our loss and that we are in the midst of a search, the Dutch vessel has begun to disrupt the navigation of our vessels in the search," said Kazuo Yamamura, president of Kyodo Senpaku Kaisha.
    Good. This keeps up, the Dutch wont let them into port...they'll have to arrest the Captain.

    The ICR also condemned the Steve Irwin's actions and called on member countries of the International Whaling Commission (IWC) to take action against the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society.
    Australia is considering whether or not to let them dock. Be fun to see them turned out of our waters.

    This is what M21 approves of....doesnt matter if human life is lost, yeah lets save the whales...
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  5. #75  
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    This is what the DU thinks about the sea shepherd

    roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 12:05 AM
    Original message
    The crew of the Steve Irwin

    For anyone who is feeling discouraged, a look at these blessed volunteers should fill you with hope. I don't see the writer's name on the article. It sounds like the Captain, Paul Watson.

    Monday, January 05, 2009
    Meet the Save the Whale "Terrorists"

    The Japanese whalers are a cowardly bunch.
    When it comes to shooting defenseless whales in the back, they thump their chests like big brave men. They strut around with their lethal lances and pose in front of their big harpoon cannons like preening peacocks bragging about their macho credentials.

    But when we show up to defend the whales, they run like frightened little schoolgirls and call their government to send down some real men to defend them from us.

    For ten days we have been chasing these craven killers across the Southern Oceans. Just like last year, and the year before that, they run and keep running.

    This is a good thing of course because when they are running, they are not whaling. Ten days of not whaling when they average ten whales a day is one hundred whales at least saved so far.

    Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 12:17 AM
    Response to Original message
    1. Long live Wildlife Warriors.

    Long live Steve Irwin's spirit.

    Blaze Diem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 12:21 AM
    Response to Original message
    2. Beautiful. K & R

    Bravo Seasheperd

    cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 12:26 AM
    Response to Original message
    3. Keep up the good work!!

    Texas Explorer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 12:26 AM
    Response to Original message
    4. Go Sea Shepherds!

    Edited on Wed Jan-07-09 12:27 AM by Texas Explorer

    And don't forget Animal Planet's Whale Wars, featuring the Sea Shepherds in action in their war against Japanese whaling.

    Artiechoke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 12:42 AM
    Response to Original message
    5. True heros. Godspeed, Sea Shepard!

    K&R

    Chulanowa (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 12:44 AM
    Response to Original message
    6. May Captain Paul Watson live a long, long life

    He's certainly save enough lives to have earned some karma points toward it.

    Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 01:14 AM
    Response to Original message
    7. They are on my lotto list....

    I only play when I buy Chinese food or have an exceptionally lucky day. But if I ever hit it big, they'll benefit.

    In the meantime, a small monthly contribution will have to do.

    lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-07-09 01:15 AM
    Response to Original message
    8. Are they hiring?
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  6. #76  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    ****SNIP***
    This is what M21 approves of....doesnt matter if human life is lost, yeah lets save the whales...
    I don't picture M21 advocating this. Being on the side of anti-whaling and applauding interference in a rescue are different things. I don't approve of all the Sheppard's methods but I do approve of their cause. I'm not a tree hugger but I don't think the japanese will starve without whale meat. Too many other sources of food to choose from.
    Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil.
    C. S. Lewis
    Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives. (Are you listening Barry)?:mad:
    Ayn Rand
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