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  1. #51  
    Sonnabend
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    Four simple questions for M21

    As a supporter of the Sea Shepherd

    1. If they ram a ship, sink it and place the crew in danger, do you feel that is justified to save a whale?

    2. If Japanese sailors die (and dont forget we are talking Arctic conditions) as a result, do you feel that is justified to save a whale?

    3. If by the actions of the crew of the Sea Shepherd, a Japanese sailor is maimed or severely injured, do you feel that is justified to save a whale?

    4. To your mind, do you believe that the ends justify the means, and that the crew of the Sea Shepherd are within their "rights" to deliberately and purposefully jeopardise human life to save a whale?

    If you answer no to any of the above, then you are a hypocrite. Because those are the possible consequences of the actions of these "eco warriors".

    The Sea Shepherd does not act for any government.

    It does not act with the authority of any nation.

    The crew of the Sea Shepherd believe that the use of violence in the name of Mother Gaia is justified....and the human cost doesnt matter.

    That they have already sunk ships and recklessly endangered life is a matter of public record, and they are proud of it

    Is this what you support? Is one human life lost justifiable to save a whale?

    And if life is lost..will you still support them?

    No equivocation, no YouTube videos, no dodging the question

    Just answer me.

    YES OR NO, M21.
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  2. #52  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    So the point of an IWC would be what in this case?
    It's a feel good organization with pretty much no power. Another result of the environuts out of control in the 70's.

    BTW - The Sea Shepherd is now sailing under the Dutch flag, and the Dutch register's response to the Japanese, when they tried to have herr flag pulled was, "We don't take our orders from Tokyo."
    Well, I guess being sanctioned by a bunch of pot smoking liberals is about the only support they can get. Canada, Belize, and Great Britain told them all to get the fuck out.

    When the Japanese "man up" , figure the odds, by getting into kayaks and start paddling for Antarctica to throw harpoons by hand like their forefathers did we can have a serious discussion on the numbers of whales they should be taking by that method.
    A lot of whale hunting done by the Inuits is done from shore with a rifle. Especially for Narwhales. Interesting point for you. Canada left the IWC in 1982. The whale meat harvested by their Inuit people IS sold commercially. The Canadian Inuits also harvest more whales in a year then the Japanese do. Thats not including Greenland and American Inuits. So by your reasoning, these people are even worse then the Japanese. The Japanese are at least adhering to the non-binding regulations laid down by the IWC. The Inuit are not.

    Indigenous people have been taking whales by these means and they don't SELL the meat.
    Wrong.

    Allan Hawkes is a store manager in Pond Inlet who is selling the whale blubber and meat to other Arctic communities as well as the ivory tusks to international buyers.
    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/...8911227635040/


    I'm still waiting for you to show us how the actions committed by the Sea Shephard organization are legal. They've repeatedly and self admittedly committed piratical acts. Their flag ship has been seized by the Canadian goverment for ramming a Coast Guard vessel. Their Anti-Whaling ship frequently attacks registered Japanese Research Vessels, and has attempted to sabatoge them to the point of putting the lives of their crew in extreme danger.

    You know you can't show that what they do is legal and you have yet to prove how the Japanese are breaking any real laws that they are legally bound to follow.

    Don't worry, I won't be holding my breath waiting for you to do either of those.
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  3. #53  
    Sonnabend
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    I imagine that he will do as he has done from the start..ignore anything that he doesnt feel like answering.
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  4. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    I'm still waiting for you to show us how the actions committed by the Sea Shephard organization are legal.
    They are FREE! Prove to me that your actions today were legal and you'll soon see what a ridiculous question you've asked.

    You've heard of the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty.

    At least once every human should have to run for his life, to teach him that milk does not come from supermarkets, that safety does not come from policemen, that news is not something that happens to other people. ~ Robert Heinlein

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  5. #55  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21 View Post
    They are FREE! Prove to me that your actions today were legal and you'll soon see what a ridiculous question you've asked.

    You've heard of the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty.

    If thats the best you've got, then I think I'm done here.

    I guess the Unibomber wasn't doing anything illegal in the 15 years it took to arrest him and try him.
    Last edited by djones520; 12-31-2008 at 01:32 PM.
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  6. #56  
    Power CUer FlaGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M21 View Post
    They are FREE! Prove to me that your actions today were legal and you'll soon see what a ridiculous question you've asked.

    You've heard of the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty.


    That only applies in an American court of law. Personal opinions are not held to the same standard.

    I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
    C. S. Lewis
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  7. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Four simple questions for M21

    As a supporter of the Sea Shepherd

    1. If they ram a ship, sink it and place the poachers in danger, do you feel that is justified to save a whale?
    IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    2. If poachers die (and dont forget we are talking Arctic conditions) as a result, do you feel that is justified to save a whale?
    IT HAS NEVER HAPPENEND.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    3. If by the actions of the crew of the Sea Shepherd, a poacher is maimed or severely injured, do you feel that is justified to save a whale?
    IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    4. To your mind, do you believe that the ends justify the means, and that the crew of the Sea Shepherd are within their "rights" to deliberately and purposefully jeopardise human life to save a whale?
    IT HAS NEVER HAPPENED. Are you talking about how they jeopardize their OWN lives?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post

    The Sea Shepherd does not act for any government.

    It does not act with the authority of any nation.
    So what! You say that as if it actually matters to the rest of us who populate the planet. Neither did Jesus Christ and nations are as wrong as individuals and more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    The crew of the Sea Shepherd believe that the use of violence in the name of Mother Gaia is justified....and the human cost doesn’t matter.
    The Sea Shepherd doesn't use violence. That is the tactic of the poachers and the governments who needlessly place their men at risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    That they have already sunk ships and recklessly endangered life is a matter of public record, and they are proud of it
    You can't be bring "violence" on property only persons. Sealers and Whalers endanger their own lives just like I did when I was a Soldier. I could have not joined and stayed home. Life is about choices. Man stands at the crossroads every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnabend View Post
    Is this what you support? Is one human life lost justifiable to save a whale?
    Your life? Whales do the planet good. You on the other hand.....not so much. :D
    At least once every human should have to run for his life, to teach him that milk does not come from supermarkets, that safety does not come from policemen, that news is not something that happens to other people. ~ Robert Heinlein

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  8. #58  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting Tidbit for you M21.

    After the sinking of the Icelandic whaling vessels in 1986, Sea Shepherd lost its status as an observer at the International Whaling Commission (IWC).

    In February of 1994, IWC Secretary Ray Gambell reiterated – after Sea Shepherd claimed it was merely enforcing IWC rules – that “the IWC and all its members ardently condemn Sea Shepherd’s acts of terrorism.”
    http://www.stlucia.gov.lc/pr2001/oce..._fishermen.htm

    So the IWC has even declared the Sea Shephard organization terrorists.
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  9. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by djones520 View Post
    If thats the best you've got, then I think I'm done here.

    I guess the Unibomber wasn't doing anything illegal in the 15 years it took to arrest him and try him.
    Don't you know exactly where the Sea Shepherd is at? I can give you an exact lat/long and you can send it to the FBI, CIA,BATF, PTA, IRS, NSA, INS...... then they can cruise right out there and arrest them.

    Better yet! Blow them right out of the water.
    At least once every human should have to run for his life, to teach him that milk does not come from supermarkets, that safety does not come from policemen, that news is not something that happens to other people. ~ Robert Heinlein

    You Say The Battle Is Over
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  10. #60  
    Zoomie djones520's Avatar
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    The Sea Shepherd doesn't use violence. That is the tactic of the poachers and the governments who needlessly place their men at risk.
    Your joking right? Because by your definition throwing acid at people isn't violent. Sinking manned ships at sea isn't violent. EVEN GREENPEACE LABELS THE ORGANIZATION AS A VIOLENT ORGANIZATION!
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